Greb/Walker vs Hagler

Hagler by decision over Walker and if i had to guess i'd lean that way over Greb too. That one is more open to interpretation tho.

 

Exactly my point, its what you've read. What you've read is from boxing writers of THAT era. Those writers as I've said 100's of time may have changed their tune if they saw Robinson, Monzon, or Hagler. ( I know your young enough and most importantly intelligent enough to see what I'm getting at, unlike some who are stuck on hero worship without any real proof) How would we know? We don't need to depend on what some writer said to see how good Robinson was at Middleweight. We can see it, and we can have a REASONABLE opinion on how he would have done against a Hagler or Monzon. Greb and Walker during that era was great according to those sport writers. But what can we see? You say he was a much better Antefermo, but Hagler beat Antefermo the 1st time in most opinions and destroyed him the 2nd. The 1st fight is what lead up to his motto of "Destruct and Destroy ". When he said he wouldn't leave any decisions in the hands of judges anymore. I'm just asking for some open mindedness. Look at it from a un-bias point of view. Because if one believes that, you may as well believe in the stories of Samson and Hercules. Because your only proof of those individuals are from what someone wrote also.

 

But you just admited that you haven't seen Walker fights, so how can you see that?

 

Not a very thought out riposte, you might think Hagler would win, but to state Greb ( prob the fastest fighter ever ) wouldn't touch him is not a viable outcome, IMO.

 

We have finally got the ATG of who do you think wins : Samson v Hercules , proper fight talk...

 

Yea, on balance agree with some of what you are saying, as someone who has read all books on Greb, and hundreds of articles over the 5 decades I have been following " this thing of ours " and I am sure the older more venerated scribes on this forum, will bear me out when I say that the stories/accounts of Grebs drinking ( not so much the womanizing, only after Mildreds death mind you ) were grossly out of tune with the reality, in fact he seldom drank ! but he did practice a stunt whereby ( as did Kecthel ) he would drink colored water when he was bar hoping, to A/ Give is opponents a false sense of security and B/ decrease his odds of winning.

As for lack of training, well he fought so often, some times once every 10 days, he didn't need to train, also your talking about a fighter that finished fights fresher and fitter than when he started ( sort of ) you get my drift.
Do I think he would have beaten Hagler, well yes I do, and pretty much any MW in history, for that matter. keep well.

 

Nice post, Mike. Different perspective, I still don't share your viewpoint but I disagree less than I did before reading your post, if that makes sense. You keep well, yourself, mate,

 

This one has actually taken place

This content is protected

I had it a hard fought draw. And there’s still more footage of these guys than of Greb.

 

It is possible you are correct overall.
But Greb *died* 94 years ago. Walker was at his peak a few years after that.
Unless the old timer was both something over 100 years old & saw them box as a child & has their memory & marbles intact (all these conditions being met are very unlikely)...
There will never be eyewitness testimony about them.

 

Hagler would be to technically sound for Walker. I see him outboxing Walker with his jab and countering as Walker comes marauding in. I could see a late stoppage here

Greb is impossible to know. But I think Hagler is probably much better, he's technically far more sound and athletic than Walker, Tunney and Loughran. So he probably has these advantages over Greb. Greb also twice lost to the southpaw Tiger Flowers

Very different. Hagler parry's punches, they relied on footwork and reactions

 

I disagree.

So you use two figths from 1926? Really? How much do you know about Greb's career?

 

It’s difficult to judge this with a fighter like Greb with no footage going against an ATG great like Hagler.
Having read Klompton’s book just once and it is a long read and is a helluva lot to digest and remember, without referencing back which I haven’t done, although no angel I’m not sure Greb was particularly an excessive drinker and womaniser.
It was simply a different time did he have something like 41 fights in 1919? I mean think about that, how much time would have been set aside for tactics and strategy?
Going off his resume though he’s obviously been something special.
Another thing to consider in these mythical match ups what would Greb have been like just fighting 3 or 4 times a year? Concentrating the rest of the time on his techniques and conditioning?

 

And it's much more arguable that Greb is 3-0 vs Flowers than is Flowers being 2-1 vs Greb.

Both are supposed to be robberies.

 

It seems to me that the pair is not evenly composed in terms of strength and skill.

 

It looks he like simply searched for any southpaw in Greb's losses without any context.