Greg Page - An overhyped bum or a lost potential?

dang! You was --CLOSE-- I went to Don King's house one time in ******, Ohio! Met his wife (knocked right on his door. Don out promoting Weaver & Tillis I do believe!) & I met Don when he promoted Julian Jackson to win the 160 at Worcester, Mass.
Interesting what you write. Yes Greg Page was "star" in them amateur days! And pro too!just, he faulted. I think he faulted prior to winning title. Didn't he? [I'd need to visit his BoxRec record.....]
Sad end there. And, here now he's "gone"!
You don't know where Don K at now hey? I always wished to work for him. Now, I'm "greater" than ever before!
No one quite knows boxing as I know the sport johnwilkinson04@iCloud.com cell 860-515-7680

 

Just how good was he when "in shape?" He came in at 220 for Berbick and lost. He came in at 220 for Norris and lost. He was 226 for Chaplin I, a Louisville bout I had George winning. (I also thought Chaplin won their rematch.) He came in at 218 for the Wills rematch, and was not yet 30 when he got decisioned by senile Joe Bugner. He came in under 225 for Bey, only to become one of just two prominent heavyweights David ever defeated. (In his professional debut, Bey stopped a 5-0-0 Buster Douglas in two rounds.)

Page should never have become a topic of discussion in boxing circles. Basketball was his first love, and he had the size and speed to achieve in that sport. (Plus, he'd be alive today.)

Stan Ward said after getting stopped by what seemed like a thumb in the eye, "He has a 'fair' left hook. And he's fast, but not that quick."

Forget his broken thumb against Berbick. (Same injury didn't stop Frazier from winning Olympic Gold.) That doesn't explain Trevor being able to bull him into the corner and hammer away. Ali did better against Berbick in the Bahamas six months earlier than Greg managed to do in dropping his first defeat.

Cosell questioned how purposeful Page's bouncing up and down was during that match with Trevor, then concluded late in their match, "He is NOT Muhammad Ali." (How ironic who the only survivor among those three champions is.)

Defensive evasion was lacking in Greg. He couldn't slip punches or dance away from attackers by outmaneuvering them. He didn't have the stamina to produce any stoppages past round eight, and I can't credit him too much for Tillis knowing how badly Quick was hampered by as yet undiagnosed severe food allergies to eggs and dairy products.

He doesn't do well with Holmes, who wouldn't be able to miss with his jab.

When discussing who of the WBA secondary champions make the most of their potential, it's clearly Mike Weaver, who improved his gas tank considerably in his rise to contention to the point of winning three consecutive WBA title bouts in the championship rounds.

Greg's only clear UD wins over 12 rounds were in dull matches against Snipes and an aging Young, but 3-4 in bouts 12 rounds or longer is not very good for a boxer of his style. His record over the distance is something like 8-10-1. I think it should have been no better than 6-12-1 with Chaplin I & II.

At a time one might have expected Page's experience to count for something, he comes in at 220 to get badly schooled on national television by Orlin Norris, so completely that I was convinced Orlin could be the guy to knock off Tyson via decision. Damiani, Bugner, Douglas and Tubbs also revealed his skill to be limited, and Witherspoon kept him backed into one corner after another.

Overhyped? Definitely. A bum? No. An underachiever? I don't necessarily think so. He wasn't particularly strong, considering his size. He outweighed Witherspoon by about 20 pounds for their first match, but Spoon clearly had more physical strength and punching power, and Greg couldn't avoid getting pinned in the corners by outmaneuvering Tim to prevent that.

Basketball with a potential athletic scholarship at a college like Louisville is the sporting path he should have been allowed to take, but his Albert Page, like Jack Quarry, cost his son his life by imposing his own fantasies on that poor kid. (Incredibly, Greg lived five years longer than father Albert, who died of lung cancer at 45 after Page-Monroe.)

First rate conditioning and weight control with a Mackie Shilstone only could have gotten him so far. Stan Ward said he telegraphed, a great left hook is not optimal for his natural style which straight jabs and right crosses at distance are more suitable with, and bouncing up and down in place is not movement across the ring.

 

Do you mean promoting Weaver and Tillis seperately or Weaver v. Tillis. Because, Weaver v. Tillis was promoted by Bob Arum.

 

Exactly what I was thinking too! Where such idea ever surphase?

 

That is a really good post.

 

Right. David Bey was a run in the mill type, barely good enough to make the top ten. He defeated page. Page blew is. He lost.

Berbick vs Page was a huge fight on the undercard of Holmes vs. ****ey. Page laid an egg, and was hurt by Brebick in round six, and had his mouthpiece flying out of his mouth on two other occasions. While the broken thumb had something to do with it, this loss set Page back.

5 months later Tills, who pretty much lost to his best opponents floored Page.

I don't get all the love for Page here. He had decent speed and some power, but lost too many key matches and wasn't always in shape.

Page's best win is likely Coetzee, and there was some controversy there

 

Great post.

 

Great post; you could turn this into a very nice online article!

 

The problem was that in his prime, he was usually over 230 lbs

The 227 he carried against Snipes in '83 looked to be his ideal weight

Almost all his 220 and below fights were when he was well past it.

He weighed 233 for Bey
over 239 for Witherspoon
236 for Coetzee
over 235 for Tillis
239 for Tubbs.

 

He did blow it with Bey, but probably blew it hard with Witherspoon, which was a winnable fight for him in the right situation. The Berbick fight hurt him, but it wasn't like he had to fight him, his rank situation was tight until he made the mistake of asking the WBA to drop his ranking. Tillis was lucky to get that called a knockdown, that was really a slip, but he did hit Greg on the way down.

His speed probably was only second to Dokes, and it some cases, that was debatable. He was definitely faster than Holmes, and he had good, underrated power (Young said he hit harder than ****ey and Dokes). His conditioning problems go back to his amateur days, and wasn't motivated to be a fighter, hence his lack of sucess.

 

This is an absolutely outstanding, informative post...the sort of thing I originally joined ESB to read. Some real inside stuff here, thanks Anubis.

 

Your post is not entirely accurate and some of it needs proper contextualization

Almost all the fights you cite where Page was "in shape" and he still performed poorly ocurred well after he began to fade.

He was 233 lbs. for Bey, not the lower weight you listed. I know because I watched the fight live and read about it in KO shortly afterward. I don't know what boxrec lists but don't need to go there anyway

In his prime, he too often came in overweight, which affected his speed and movement

I will list a few examples:

Tillis - over 235 lbs
Young - over 230 lbs
Cotezee - 236 lbs. (He won but his movement was affected)
Witerspoon - over 239 lbs (this was inexcusable. It was a title fight, and he weighed 12 less pounds against Snipes only 9 months before)
Tubbs - 239 lbs.

Examples where he was in shape were Monroe (around 226 lbs), Snipes (227 lbs) and the aforementioned Berbick (220 lbs)

He blew away Monroe and was faster despite being 30 lbs bigger than his opponent

He moved well against Snipes and mixed boxing and slugging on the inside

I know he was fat for one of the Chaplin fights and in better shape for the rematch.

I think Chaplin had a tough style - he was a real cutie. Good defense, slipped punches well. I'll chalk Page's struggles with him up to style matchup

I think you denigrate Page too much in your post and reduce him to a non-factor in the division, which is just revisionist history.

If he had fought around 225 lbs. his entire prime he would have had better results and come closer to fulfilling his potential.

If he shows up against Larry Holmes in late '83 in the shape he was in for the Snipes fight (around 225 lbs) he would have greatly troubled Holmes.

If I remember correctly, Witherspoon had trouble missing Holmes with the jab in their May 1983 encounter, not the other way around.

Page, if in shape, wouldn't stand right in front of Larry, would give angles, etc.

 

Good rebuttal!

 

He was actually in somewhat decent shape for Chaplin I and 238 for the rematch. Had him edging Chaplin in first fight. Second fight was more of a draw. He was also 230+ for Evangelista. If he had stayed with Butch, his career would've been different.

 

X2, that was some post. You can almost feel the era oozing out of Saad such is his familiarity.