I kind of had a feeling it was curtains for George as the fight went past round 4, he was looking wild and vulnerable, I wasn't even shocked at the KO despite its suddenness as Froch was closing in and George was trading. I agree with the opinion that he should have started a lot faster and put some hurt on Froch before he gained momentum. but to be honest I think Froch would always out tough George, the proof is there to see, he started fast last time and couldn't finish Froch, he took a more measured pace this time and was still finished. I also think the hype didn't help George at all, I had a bad feeling after the bus entrance, his mind was on putting a show on, not the fight, you could see the adrenaline pumping before he got in the ring. I feel bad for George that he got taken out like that but am also glad it was a conclusive finish. Its difficult to see how George will progress now, I hope he has learned a bit from this, he is a young guy and the hype for this fight was unreal, I think it effected him and he wasn't looking at the reality. I agree with others that say he is a bit like Haye, if you cant take his explosiveness you are out of there, if you can then the vulnerabilities show.
Two shakes not really excuses...the best man won. All plaudits to carl froch. Just my take on it. Groves fought a very different fight...was it his downfall...or was it solely down to the improvements carl made. An argument can be made for both sides. But the talking, excuses etc cant over-ride that the best man won and conclusively at that. Not been a lucky punch, i think i ve gave carl his fair due as most have. Carl was on his way to winning that fight even though i had groves a point up. agree with pretty much all of that rski...what i will never get was george's insistance of trading with carl in close. It was his downfall in the first fight and again in the second i understand tiredness caused it in the first fight...but why even exchange in close if your tired anyway. For the life of me i dont know why george even threw a left hook with carl for the knockout. The straight punches were all groves needed to throw all night. Tie carl up when close or get out of there. Instead he insisted on exchanging in close...carl would always out-tough George in them situations. Probably the sensible option Westy, you could see why they've went in there with the game plan that they did. Think 9 out of ten coaches would have went in their with the same...knowing george is probably the better boxer...with froch being the better fighter. But i think after the conclusion to the second fight...the only way george would have beat froch...would have been with the exact same game plan as the first fight...the reason it was so successful for as long as it was was because he had froch hesitant at coming forward at least until the two men tired or george lost the snap on his punches which would have probably happened in the end anyway in the second fight where froch would have probably got to him...but regardless of the stoppage of the first fight i honestly dont think froch had that much left in the tank...due to the accumulation of the hurtful shots george hit him with leading up to it. I fancied groves to actually stop froch if he weathered the storm. I think froch was throwing in desperation and george showed his inexperience and lack of durability to make the same mistake he ended up making in the second fight by trading with carl in close...froch is very good at dragging people into the battle to his credit. Last night he didn't have enough or didn't open up enough to discourage froch and that to me was more dangerous especially with carl being relatively fresh than putting it on him. Probably too risky a strategy with the high pace always suiting carl. But would have loved to have seen groves go out there with the same application as the first fight and seen how it panned out. Saying that i dont think last nights groves would have been up to the task anyway. Wasn't strong enough, explosive enough, accurate enough and i dont even think the first fights version of groves would have been enough for a much improved version of froch last night. Whats people's thought...was it solely down to it being a much better froch...where he shut down groves...was it just down to carl not having to deal with the big knockdown in the first fight...Was it in hindsight the wrong game-plan in terms of exchanging when carl closed the gap. Was it george not being as good...conditioning wise. explosiveness etc I understand the easy answer is it being solely down to froch being much improved over the last fights froch and it just being down to a more focused carl...that was a big part of it but i thought they're was more to it than that. Froch's gameplan was quality for it...it's not that he enforced it on groves...but more that groves conceded it happily like the centre of the ring for example. I think if groves tried to enforce the same game plan as the first time...carl would have probably had the answers for it this time anyway. I think it's a combination of all of them...but either way last nights carl froch was a big big improvement not just over the first fight but a lot of carl froch's previous performances...more so technically. It would have always been a big ask of george against that froch. He really didn't fight too badly...apart from the in close exchanges...which to me were stupidity. He caused carl problems just nothing that had froch overly worried. I dont know why george even used anything but straight shots all night. I suppose it's easier keeping froch off you when your not in their fighting him tho . Thats it from me i m definetely in fan boy territory now lol...the truth is am not either of their greatest fans as people...i like george as a fighter...but realise his weaknesses and his inability to fix them some he cant fix anyway...will come back to haunt him again and again in the future depending on the opponents he faces. And carl is still deluded, not on his achievements but on his reading of things especially...but george is too which i didn't believe to be the case up until last nights fight. But i guess thats what makes them the fighters they are. Am actually happy for froch...he deserves it overall. And think they could well be his defining fights as the years go by that maybe calzaghe missed out on. He had lacy, kessler etc but this was a different kind of rivalry and it will be them ones that stand out in the end.
Firstly , i will say that i thought Froch would win this and win by KO ,i did believe Froch underestimated him in the first fight . But i think the reason George done so well in the first is because he caught him cold and forced Froch to be a bit too respectful , , But getting back to George and his preperation ,, this i think was the big mistake , I think George and his team , Thought too nuch about this one . In the first fight he had not really been with Paddy long enough to work out and plan a master stratergy , Groves i think just went in there with confidence , youthful excuberence , and a complete lack of respect for Froch . This fight , you could see was different , Paddy had him working to a plan , and that plan was always going to get him knocked out , the plan was to save himself for the later onslought , and counter him .. That enebled Froch to get his jab going and get his distance right , and from there he can do what he wants , , basic mistake ,, Groves is faster he should off been , jabbing with carl , and moving with the jab utilizing his speed , jabbing moving to the side, or moving in jabbing and nulifying Frochs counter by holding and frustrating , , to sit and counter was suicide . Froch does every thing wrong , so that tells you he is very very heavy handed , he does'nt put the body behind his punches , he stands square on and throws his arms , but yet he still hurts . Based on that alone ANY DENT TRAINER wil tell you that you cannot allow him to get his distance , you nedd to be either on top of him or well away , and if you have faster hands , and faster feet , it should be doable This fight was'nt won in the ring it was won in the gym , because Froch had a FAR SUPERIOR AND EXPERIENCED TRAINER . iT WAS OBVIOUS THEY KNEW WHAT TO DO , THEY HAD A PLAN , AND THEY STUCK TO IT ,, Groves on the other hand he had a plan but it was the wrong one , it was based on moving back , Frochs a puncher and a swinger you don't move back on these guys you move to the side , and you move in and close them down , , Look at the knock down it was Basic , It was a basic , move you teach kids , drop the knee , move the shoulder and feint the right , throw the feeler with the hook and BOOM , Nothing spectacular , nothing amazing just basic boxing .. But Basic boxing that Froch does VERY VERY well , it was'nt a one off move from Froch he does it all the time , why were they not prepared for it they knew it was coming ,, or perhaps they did'nt know , in which case , IT WAS PADDYS JOB TOO KNOW , . fROCH ALWAYS HAD THE HEAVY HANDS TOO STOP gEORGE , BUT HIS MISTAKE WAS ALLOWING Froch to get the correct distance to use them . Groves will be back but for me he needs to go get himself a good trainer , if i was him i would be approaching Mackraken and basing myself with him ,, ready to take over the mantle from Carl , when he retires in a year or so . plenty of fights out there for George , he has the tools , he just has to be shown how to use them correctly .
Top top post trumpy. I said earlier mckracken would be a great fit for groves...not really stylistically but more the type of trainer groves needs that will demand his respect. You know what going into last nights fight i would have said groves was the clear puncher of the two...but your spot on with carl having heavy hands and he was the puncher in the fight as much as groves's look more hurtful. I can watch froch fight and it seems like his punches aren't great shots...they are arm punches most of the time but they are hurtful shots...you just had to see how groves almost seemed like he could unravelle everytime carl actually got through. You wrote Groves on the other hand he had a plan but it was the wrong one , it was based on moving back , Frochs a puncher and a swinger you don't move back on these guys you move to the side , and you move in and close them down , , Is that true trumpy? I wouldn't have even known that...i would have thought and this will show my lack of knowledge technically here...that with a swinger you WOULD move back and wouldn't move to the side in fear of moving into a shot. Is it a case of moving back, the swinger can get more leverage in his punches?? Do you think with the right game plan george could have won that fight last night...with how froch turned up...i think he worked exceptionally hard more so than in his previous fights in training this time because he genuinely feared groves a bit after the first encounter. I think he trained well enough for the first fight also because i always thought he was wary of george mostly his style but i think he really did go away and train like a bear for this one. And it showed. I also think george didn't come in as good as condition than the previous fight i think they trained hard for it...but something wasn't firing...they misjudged something along the way...i think the s & c part of it should be under question. Either way i personally think groves would have folded against last nights carl froch eventually. But he might have got the stoppage if he went with more of the same as the first fight. Could have been took out in 3 but also could have wore carl down and got it...i realise that that was probably unlikely though. You wrote In the first fight he had not really been with Paddy long enough to work out and plan a master stratergy , Groves i think just went in there with confidence , youthful excuberence , and a complete lack of respect for Froch . ^^^thats spot on...it's amazing that it takes reading it to realise it. Do you think that george is the type of fighter...that the less game plan he has the better he is. He's naturally quite a big puncher...fast, explosive...i m not saying send him in their with no tactics but let him do what comes naturally to him more than keeping him on a leash or trying to mastermind his fights. I honestly think thats been the reason for his split with booth...i know money was a problem but i think that was after the split more than the reason for it. Sure i read somewhere that they had words over the glen johnson fight where george didn't stick to the game plan. I think george always wanted let off the leash. And he showed it worked to an extent in the first fight with froch but at the biggest stage his bottle has went and he's ended up going out there with a game plan similar to the one booth would have giving him anyway. To be clear i rate booth and i dont think the youthful exuberance/confidence/complete lack of respect for froch would have worked a second time with froch/mckracken having time to prepare for it...and froch coming in better shape and more focused than the first fight
Groves on the other hand he had a plan but it was the wrong one , it was based on moving back , Frochs a puncher and a swinger you don't move back on these guys you move to the side , and you move in and close them down , , Is that true trumpy? I wouldn't have even known that...i would have thought and this will show my lack of knowledge technically here...that with a swinger you WOULD move back and wouldn't move to the side in fear of moving into a shot. Is it a case of moving back, the swinger can get more leverage in his punches?? When i say you don't move back on a puncher , obviously you have to move , what i mean is you don't move back in a straight line , you pick angles , if you have the footwork to do it , and George does , otherwise you will get steam rolled , especielly against a guy with a iron chin , a great will , and a heavy hand., example the jab comes . You push off back with the front foot , to seperate the distance , and a slight twirl of the ball of the feet creates an angle . much like a matador , , or you can move in close him down , and hold ,, but moving back in a straight line will allow him to gauge his distance to perfection and catch you , If you know he is a swinger be prepared to slip a lot , and counter ,, but going back in a straightt line hoping for a counter is dangerous , has we seen . Do you think with the right game plan george could have won that fight last night...with how froch turned up.. I don't know if he would off won , after all i picked Froch in this one , but i think with a different plan they could off made it a lot harder for Carl , It is boxing and sooner or later you will get hit , , but like i said , moving back looking for a counter , and then getting took out with a basic move , Especielly a move you know your opponent uses a lot , then you would have to look hard at your trainer . . Do you think that george is the type of fighter...that the less game plan he has the better he is. He's naturally quite a big puncher...fast, explosive...i m not saying send him in their with no tactics but let him do what comes naturally to him more than keeping him on a leash or trying to mastermind his fights. I think you should always have a game plan , A -B and C , but you don't want to over complicate it , personaly i think plan A , should off been to know Carl has trained harder than ever before , and too off started there masterplan a lot earlier and kept his mouth shut ,, he was NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS gonna intimidate Carl Froch ,, he done something you should never do , and that was , GIVE THE MAN A REASON , He gave Froch a reason to take this has the most serious fight ever . But once he done that he should off known , Froch was always goiung to be up for it , and if there plan should off been basic really not too complicated , George go out and use his speed and footwork , box from a distance and tie Carl up when in close , Its all easy for us after the fact , but heh its only an opinion , and right or wrong , good on both of them they are bringing back the interest in boxing , and more interest means more money and more top fights , Personaly i would like to see George battling it out with the likes of Degale , and Eabank whilst getting a bit more experience , because these guys are the future , Carl i read he wants Vegas , but he best be pepared to lose to someone like Chavez the yanks or rather the mexicans love him , and home town disisions are not just englich and german . If i was Carls management i would grab Degale , RIGHT NOW before he gets better , give him a spanking and retire . Degale i think would give Carl a harder time , just based on the fact that he can fight better inside , he also likes opponents to come on him . I would pick Carl to do a number on him NOW , but i'm not too sure in 12 months . cheers
Quality...you make me look like a casual with your boxing knowledge mate. You no longer involved in the sport?? Yeah agree with the you should always have a plan...A,B,C. But the only way i differ is i think plan A should have been exactly the same as the first fight and if it wasn't working like it did in the first fight or he was overly tyring he should have reverted to plan B...with the one they went with...trying to counter froch. In the end they would have had to revert to plan B anyway because i just dont think groves's explosiveness was quite the same and froch was better prepared. But i still would have liked him going in their asking froch the questions like he did in the first fight. I'd have Froch retiring now on a high...think anything else will be an anti-climax. But the man seems to have ambition of fighting in vegas...he deserves to do what he wants now...just dont think i'd be that interested in it...hype wise. There's no history with chavez...the kessler fight is pointless, carl beat a seen better days kessler a while back quite comfortably, he would do it better the next time i would think. Degale...would make good sense from a promoters point of view...and agree he would take him now but maybe not too far in the future. The only fight i would take if i was Froch would be Ward in England. 9 out of 10 people would have ward winning comfortably again...and i'd be one of them. But it's one of them where if he somehow did manage to pull out the win...a massive ask...his legacy would be unbeilevable. He's got nothing to lose really...with wards inactivity and a hostile crowd in england...etc etc...it would give him at least a chance. And if you lose it...it goes down as the only man that wasn't avenged was ward...who was head and shoulders above anyone else in the division anyway. Although getting ward over here might be next to impossible but surely ward has to look at changing up what he's been doing up till now...he must have been sitting at home saturday night thinking what is wrong with the world when you've got 80,000 going out to see froch v groves each of them making millions...ward being better than the both of them...but struggling to attract much interest...has to take risks for the sake of his career now for me. But either way dont have a problem with what froch chooses to do now...deserves to do what he wants. I liked george in the build up...i like the pshcology stuff...it does make him come across as wierd at times...but it's a bit different. Dont think he was too far off with a lot of things he done to get into froch's head. It worked the first time. It's just that froch dealt with it the second time much better...it stopped having an affect...and it all ended up back-firing in the end. I would encourage what he does though...because i know if i was fighting him and he was coming out of nowhere downplaying me a four time world champion...telling me he can win the fight anyway he wants, telling us what punch he'll win the fight with for example and looking like he genuinely believes it and it will be easy for him...i'd be thinking to myself wait a minute....is this guy better than i think??. He had me believing anyway. I dont think it's a hinderance to him...i think the biggest hinderance is that he genuinely believes what he says too much as opposed to it purely being mind games which i thought it was all along. In hindsight i think it's part mind games but part over confidence as well. He needs someone that will put him in check...when he's watching froch v bute for example and saying to his trainer i can take froch out easily...he needs someone to tell him straight...yeah you might have the tools but we dont have the experience/durability etc etc etc to go out there and carry it out yet anyway. I liked the everythingforareason or the 6 is the special number It's a bit different... It didn't work out for him in the end but at least he's gave it a go...it's not the usual i hate my opponent just because we dont like each other (fury/chisora). Froch didn't like groves because of his over-confidence amongst other things and groves isn't a big fan of carl's for his delusions amongst other things. And the mindgames played a part in it all. It was over-confidence. And i dont know if it was purely tactical mindgames in the end from george...Froch done the best thing after the first fight he gave up the mind-games to concentrate on the job in hand whereas george wouldn't let them go even after not getting the reaction he might have wanted...that was the big difference this fight. It was definetely worth trying from george and made the build up a bit more interesting to the second fight Yeah saturday night was overall a massive success for boxing in my eyes anyway. I think eddie's the man and will bring boxing back to the masses. Just needs to cut out his underhand **** first though. There's no need for it. Been a pleasure mate
simba I will ask you one thing Carl froch man or mouse think before wandering and should groves now give degasle and Anderson rematches , obviously Anderson's will have to wait a bit
I thought Groves gameplan was fine, if he had had a bit more discipline and hadn't started swinging wild hooks with his back on the ropes he could have easily held on for the win. His lack of maturity really let him down. Not taking anything away from Froch tho, was a great win
Probably the sensible game plan to go out there with cupid i dont think they deserve that much stick for the gameplan. It wouldn't have been me though i would have sent him out there to take the centre of the ring and put it on carl like the first fight...and then reverted back to what they went with if it wasn't working. I understand the danger involved in it but thought it was his best chance. I thought froch was there for the taking going in to the fight. Yeah it was the lack of discipline/maturity that essentially let him down in the end just looking at it from a george groves perspective. Not taking anything away from froch. Ashish i dont even know if i m being trolled or not here lol...which doesn't really say that much for your trolling skills if you are...i dont mind trolls either way their sometimes entertaining but if your just on to get a reaction from other people everytime...you'd probably be much better off on twitter rather than a boxing forum...could maybe even get yourself an rt off of someone famous........................dont you have anything to add about boxing thats not just to agitate other people??
Come on simba, am waiting for your feeble response...very strange your not as active as you were a few weeks ago