Guide me to the lineal heavyweight champion please.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by themostoverrated, Feb 20, 2024.


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  1. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Yes essentially. But I think if the previous lineal champ retires and then comes back, he should not the lineal anymore.
     
    dmt, Feb 21, 2024
    dmt, Feb 21, 2024
    #16
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  2. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    Is there any authority (TBRB, Ring) that decides this? Or is it by convention?

    Also if Francis Ngannou beat Fury in their fight, would he have been the lineal champ?
     
    themostoverrated, Feb 21, 2024
    themostoverrated, Feb 21, 2024
    #17
  3. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I think it’s by convention.

    and yes Ngannou beating Fury would make him lineal champ officially.
     
    dmt, Feb 21, 2024
    dmt, Feb 21, 2024
    #18
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  4. wibispo

    wibispo Brazil Full Member

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    By convention, and yes, Ngannou would be champion if he beat Fury (which, personally, made me very nervous during the fight lol).
     
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    #19
  5. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Correct. He was the lineal champ for the fight with Danny Williams. Perhaps he should have resumed being champ when he returned.

    This was an unusual situation because the eventual replacement for Vitali was his brother who he was never going to fight. They had to pick one without having them fight. I think they picked right.
     
    HistoryZero26, Feb 21, 2024
    HistoryZero26, Feb 21, 2024
    #20
  6. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    So, anybody beating the champion on any night will make him the lineal champ, regardless of the seriousness of the situation? Personally, this does not appeal to me. Because if Ngannou had won, then lost to some other crappy MMA fighter, there was a chance that this 'lineal' title would have never even appeared on the elite stage.

    Probably, a rule assigning at least one alphabet title (since 1920s) can be added to determine the lineal champion. And as @dmt said, if any lineal champ retires or if he loses all of his titles, the championship must be declared vacant until the #1 and #2 fight. This would mean the following lineages:

    1. Sullivan -> Corbett -> Fitzsimmons -> Jeffries

    2. Hart -> Burns -> Johnson -> Willard -> Dempsey -> Tunney

    3. Schmeling -> Sharkey -> Carnera -> Baer -> Braddock -> Louis

    4. Charles -> Walcott -> Marciano

    5. Patterson -> Johansson -> Patterson -> Liston -> Ali

    6. Frazier -> Foreman -> Ali -> L. Spinks -> Ali

    7. Tyson -> Douglas -> Holyfield -> Bowe -> Holyfield -> Moorer -> Foreman

    8. Lewis -> Rahman -> Lewis

    9. W. Klitschko -> Fury

    10. Usyk.

    No Holmes, Michael Spinks and Briggs in the list. Charles beat Walcott, Frazier beat Ellis, Tyson beat Spinks, Lewis beat Holyfield, Klitschko beat Povetkin and Usyk beat Joshua. In each case, it was the #1 facing the #2 for the vacant title. The only question would be over Ali's status in 1980.
     
    themostoverrated, Feb 21, 2024
    themostoverrated, Feb 21, 2024
    #21
  7. wibispo

    wibispo Brazil Full Member

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    I don't think so.
     
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    #22
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  8. wibispo

    wibispo Brazil Full Member

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    The fights that count are sanctioned professional boxing fights. Amateur fights, exhibitions, street fights, or MMA fights do not count.
     
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    #23
  9. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The second Joshua win did. Ring magazine gave Usyk the belt after the second Joshua win. The champion coming back after a new champ has been crowned has happened like 4 times already. The newly crowned champ has kept their status each time before fighting the returning one. They both are lineal champs until one beats the other(or Fury decides to retire again).
     
    HistoryZero26, Feb 21, 2024
    HistoryZero26, Feb 21, 2024
    #24
  10. wibispo

    wibispo Brazil Full Member

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    For this reason, the lineal champion is recognized posthumously (or retrospectively). There cannot be two lineal champions at the same time. The future will tell who will be the champion. If there was no fight between the two, Fury would be.
     
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    #25
  11. wibispo

    wibispo Brazil Full Member

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    Also, Ngannou would be a superior lineal champion than Marvin Hart, Leon Spinks and Shannon Briggs
     
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    wibispo, Feb 21, 2024
    #26
  12. themostoverrated

    themostoverrated Active Member Full Member

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    But not all sanctioned professional boxing fights need to be sanctioned title fights. There are non-title fights too, this has happened before, even with the champion involved.
     
    themostoverrated, Feb 21, 2024
    themostoverrated, Feb 21, 2024
    #27
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  13. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Sounds about right.
    Tho I remember V Klitschko at one point called linear after Lewis retired.
    Then his brother held it after him.
     
    Fergy, Feb 21, 2024
    Fergy, Feb 21, 2024
    #28
  14. Greg Price99

    Greg Price99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Greg Price99, Feb 21, 2024
    Greg Price99, Feb 21, 2024
    #29
  15. lone star

    lone star Active Member Full Member

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    Up to Lewis yes. After that it’s a complete mess. Until someone completely gets all the titles and has no legitimate top contender name left out of his or his unification opponents record I’d say its vacant and has been since Lewis retired.
     
    lone star, Feb 21, 2024
    lone star, Feb 21, 2024
    #30
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