GUILALAH: My Current AT Heavy Rankings

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by guilalah, Dec 3, 2008.


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  1. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Against my better judgement ...


    GUILALAH's Current (12/3/08)
    ALLTIME HEAVYWEIGHT RANKING

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Rocky Marciano
    4. Jack Dempsey
    5. Jack Johnson
    6. James J Jeffries
    7. John L Sullivan
    8. Gene Tunney
    9. Joe Frazier
    10. Larry Holmes
    11. Lennox Lewis
    12. Evander Holyfield
    13. Sonny Liston
    14. Mike Tyson
    15. George Foreman
    16. Bob Fitzsimmons
    17. Ezzard Charles
    18. James J Corbett
    19 Sam Langford
    20 'Jersey' Joe Walcott
    21 Peter Jackson
    22 Riddick Bowe
    23 Max Schmeling
    24 Harry Wills
    25 Max Baer
    26 Jack Sharkey

    Comments:
    I'm comfortable with Louis and Ali as my top two, and would not be uncomfortable in the slightest if their order were reversed.
    I'm comfortable with either Johnson, Dempsey or Marciano in the #3 spot; nor would I be uncomfortable with Jeffries or Sullivan in the third position.
    Tunney in the 8th spot might make some eyes roll ... well, I think he would be a very live underdog against either Louis or Ali -- I consider him the most underrated of the great heavyweights.
    Frazier and Holmes can be switched without any objection from me: I think they match up equally well to the group I rank ahead of them (and better with Ali than Louis); I favor Frazier a little head-to-head against Holmes, but Holmes probably would have been better against the Liston-Foreman-Frazier group. Placing either Frazier or Holmes ahead of Tunney would not trouble me.
    I have no strong opinion as to whether Holyfield ought rank over Lewis, or vice versa.
    Liston, Foreman and Tyson can be placed in any order with respect to one another.
    I'd have no objection to switching Charles with Fitzsimmons.
    Jackson, Corbett, Langford and Walcott can be placed in any order with respect to one another.
    I do not have strong feelings about the order of my last five (Wills, J Sharkey, Schmeling, M Baer and Bowe); nor am I sure that other names ought not be interpolated into this group.
     
    guilalah, Dec 3, 2008
    guilalah, Dec 3, 2008
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Good effort. My opinion -

    SHOULD BE LOWER.

    Tunney (8), not defendable, doesn't matter how you think he would do with your top two. He just doesn't have the resume. Never fought a black fighter. Not a HW. No great HW wins, all due respect to a past peak Dempsey.

    Dempsey (4), not defendable (Though everyone wants to try!!). A horrible resume, he didn't even match his top two contenders (Greb, Wills), he was the most inactive champ in history, hisrun to the the title is not extraordinary. Not a top 10 HW for me.



    SHOULD BE HIGHER

    Sonny Liston. Huge head to head threat. First superheavy frame with boxing skill. Old and past prime when defeated by stylistic cryptonite and #1 HW in history. Cleared out his division. Ducked by the champion over whom he has the best pair in HW history. I rate Patterson a lot higher than you (is he excluded from your list on purpose?), maybe that is the biggest difference.

    Mike Tyson. You are heavily into H2H but you have Tyson this low? Why? As far as skillset/athleticism combo's go, does anyone overhaul him? Cleared out his division, dominant reign of terror like none other since perhaps Louis.

    Peter Jackson. First really athletic big man? Avoided and undefeated against the best in his division for many years. Ducked by the best in his time.

    Harry Wills. Far, far to low. Arguably top ten. Should never be outside the top 15. Why on earth is he so low? Apart from Ali, who has a resume to keep him company?
     
    McGrain, Dec 3, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 3, 2008
    #2
  3. Taylor_brogdon

    Taylor_brogdon Active Member Full Member

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    I 110% agree with McGrain, but good list to you aswell. Props.
     
    Taylor_brogdon, Dec 3, 2008
    Taylor_brogdon, Dec 3, 2008
    #3
  4. OBCboxer

    OBCboxer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fighters 4-8(except for Jack Johnson) should not be in the top 10 IMO. They just have not accomplished as much or didn't have as much skill as some other great Heavyweights. I personally would rate Louis as number one but Ali is definetly acceptable. Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Liston should be in the top 10 and Foreman should be higher.
     
    OBCboxer, Dec 3, 2008
    OBCboxer, Dec 3, 2008
    #4
  5. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Wow, John L Sullivan did what to earn that spot?

    Historically important, sure. In regards to wins, longevity, resume?

    What exactly are you factoring into this list?
     
    Russell, Dec 3, 2008
    Russell, Dec 3, 2008
    #5
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    When it comes to someone else’s list, I usually only mention the fighters I feel are way over rated or under rated. Foreman to me at 15 is too low. Conversely, I feel Sullivan at #7 is too high. If you swamped places with these two, I could only disagree in shades of grey.
     
    Mendoza, Dec 3, 2008
    Mendoza, Dec 3, 2008
    #6
  7. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I edited my opening post to include "Placing either Frazier or Holmes ahead of Tunney would not trouble me."

    Thank you for all the responses. I'll be pretty busy through next week -- I work at a college book store, and end of the semester buy back is a busy time -- but I will try to respond to all of your comments.
     
    guilalah, Dec 4, 2008
    guilalah, Dec 4, 2008
    #7
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Why?

    Given his level of dominance ranking him at #7 makesd more sense than ranking him at #20, if you must atempt to rank him.
     
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    #8
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    #9
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Why?

    Who did Sullivan beat to rank so high?
     
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2008
    Mendoza, Dec 4, 2008
    #10
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    His best win was Killrain which is a huge win given the stage of his career that he was at but that is not the point.

    In his prime he was probably as far ahead of the available competition as any champion has ever been. He could have beaten any two of them on the same night.
     
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You don't fight your #1 contender through your own choice, expect to suffer, badly, in terms of all time standing.

    Not that he gives a ****, he had a great time, racist old *******.
     
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2008
    #12
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Even if Sullivan had lost to Peter Jackson it would have been so late in his career that it would have been prety much like loosing to Jim Corbett. At Sullivans peak I dont think there was anybody who could have touched him.

    Somtimes it just dosnt make any difference.
     
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    janitor, Dec 4, 2008
    #13
  14. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Dempsey is far too high.
     
    radianttwilight, Dec 4, 2008
    radianttwilight, Dec 4, 2008
    #14
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Maybe. But fighting nobody instead of fighting Jackson should stand against him rather than for. Four years of inactivity after Jackson beat Godfrey. Worse than your man Dempsey!
     
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2008
    McGrain, Dec 4, 2008
    #15
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