Guillermo Rigondeaux vs Joan Guzman @ Super Bantamweight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Flo_Raiden, Jun 15, 2020.


  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    You’re talking about entertainment more than levels.
     
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  2. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Goes both ways. It's undeniable fact that guys like Leo Santa Cruz and Carl Frampton swerved Rigondeaux due to being high risk and low reward. But Rigo did himself no favors by constantly putting on awful fights while the other top fighters also were able to build an excuse by claiming that he has nothing to offer or that he doesn't make for a great fight. Promoters were also sick of Rigo's BS as well. Had Rigo consistently put on great performances and scored KOs that made fans wanting to see him fight and Top Rank wanting to keep working with him there's no doubt that Rigo could have generated more money and perhaps give other top guys a reason to fight him because they would also have a high reward by fighting him.
     
  3. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Gomez was levels above Rigo.
     
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  4. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    It’s true that Rigondeaux’s fights, like the Agbeko bout, didn’t help his case, and promoters were happy to use that as an excuse. But expecting a fighter to change the style that made them elite just to get opportunities is unreasonable. You don’t see American fighters being forced to abandon their approach for marketability why should Rigondeaux be held to a different standard?
     
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  5. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The problem was that Top Rank constantly gave Rigo chances to stick around but he still refused to put on a show. There's nothing wrong with fighting a defensive style and schooling opponents if you're facing top level competition but when it's against overmatched opponents where he could have easily dispatched them instead of fighting the same BS safety first style and making it a chore to watch that's a big issue. As far as American fighters goes you have the trash talking charismatic personalities where they were able to get away with not being exciting. Rigo on the other hand has a personality of a dishwasher. He just doesn't generate much interest personality wise and ent outside of pure boxing connoisseurs.
     
  6. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Circular logic. The best fighters not named Donaire ducked him like the plague.
     
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  7. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Top Rank gave Rigondeaux some chances, but their support was lukewarm at best. Yes, he could’ve taken more risks against lower-level opponents like Agbeko or Kokietgym to silence critics, but asking him to abandon his defensive mastery just to ‘put on a show’ is unreasonable, especially when his style made him nearly untouchable. And while marketability matters, language barriers played a bigger role than personality. Plenty of non-charismatic fighters have been promoted successfully when given real backing.
     
  8. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Excuses. Again, it goes both ways. Rigo is at much fault for not being able to fight the top guys as those guys dodging him. The way his career turned out is all on him at the end of the day. And unfortunately for him he'll be widely remembered as a wasted potential who had one great night but also being a quitter.
     
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  9. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Did Rigo abandon his style when he fought aggressive and let his hands go against Teon Kennedy and Willie Casey? Or what about when he fought Amagasa and Ceja where he actually showed some grit? I'll give you Ceja since he actually stood toe to toe that's uncharacteristic of him. But again why be risk averse against lower tier fighters? He can be untouchable while still being a joy to watch as well with that defense and jaw breaking power. I don't mind him putting on Donaire-esque performances but he really dropped the ball on how he handled himself.

    When it comes to marketability the language barrier does limit him from having a big following but the promoters can only do so much to attract a wider audience for a guy with Rigo's style and personality. I'm saying this as someone who had high hopes for Rigo when I first saw his career take off and looked promising at first. It really frustrates me how Rigo can look sensational one fight but then look like absolute crap more often.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2025
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    Who else are you applying this logic to? Whitaker? Jimmy Young? Johnny Nelson? Sandor Martin?
     
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  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I'd take Rigo here, but Guzman is a live underdog. Rigo was just far too good as a ring general, with some serious sharp shooting skills. Guzman was often a little flat due to weight and even more improven. I tend to think Rigo would keep the distance to his liking and time whatever special effects Guzman has in store for him.

    Rigo isn't beating Gomez though. Not even comparable in terms of overall ability imo.
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    I disagree, I think if your style makes almost untouchable, you should be able to take risks without being punished too hard. This should be encouraged, and definitely isn't unreasonable. I'm not saying he should've matched forward with a high guard and a stomp like a Thai fighter but he could've at least upped his activity, or started forcing action more. Rigos style was absolutely perfect for doing one thing; and that was limiting everyone's output. Like iirc, both Donaire and Rigo averaged like 30 punches a round. That's shockingly low, especially for super bantamweight.

    NoNeck mentioned Whitaker; but I think that's a perfect example of a southpaw, defensive specialist who was able to take control with both offence and defence. Look at the Haugen fight, or the Brazier fight. Whitaker dominated them on the front foot, using his defensive mastery to create and set up his workrate.
     
  13. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fighters who were historically known to be avoided, or at the very least claim to be. Guys like Mike McCallum, Gennady Golovkin, Winky Wright, Sonny Liston, Sam Langford, Charley Burley and the other Murderer's Row fighters. Not to mention Lennox Lewis being avoided like the plague by Bowe. Those guys at least managed to make the most of what they got when they couldn't get the fights they wanted. Some of them were able to get the fights that they were pursuing while the other avoided fighters still had other meaningful fights on their resume without latching on to just one big win.
     
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  14. themaster458

    themaster458 Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I see your point. but his style was built on control, precision, and minimizing openings. Why should he abandon that just to up his punch count? If Donaire or anyone else felt limited, that’s on them to press the fight, not on Rigo to make their job easier. Fighters aren’t required to take unnecessary risks just to appease critics, especially when their style keeps them dominant. And even when he did score knockouts, like against Dickens or Flores, it didn’t suddenly make people want to fight him.
     
  15. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist

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    At a glance, none of them were defending champions who had outclassed a prime pfp fighter.
     
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