Guys Who Ali Beat Who Could Have Beaten Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by William Walker, May 23, 2020.


  1. William Walker

    William Walker Active Member Full Member

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    1963: Doug Jones. I believe this fight was so close as it is, that Jones wouldn't have to do much to earn the decision.
    1966: George Chuvalo. Although Ali was really athletic back then, he hadn't seen too many wars, and I think if Chuvalo had jabbed more, and applied more pressure from the very beginning, that Ali would wear down from the body punishment. I say this because throughout his career, Ali's toughest opponents were the body punchers.
    1967: Ernie Terrell. It always irritated me how Terrell abandoned his best game plan in the fight with Ali. I really think if Terrell had controlled the fight with his longer jab, and then clinched when Ali got in, and turn it into an inside fight, where Terrell was a nightmare, and could dictate the clinches with his superior weight, Terrell could have beaten Ali. Ali couldn't fight inside, so he would not have done well in this situation.
    1971: Jimmy Ellis. Ellis fought the wrong fight against Ali. He should have fought like he did vs. Martin and Bonavena. You can't outbox Ali. Ellis was good enough of a boxer to give Ali trouble, but I think he should have jabbed with Ali and fought like he did in the opening rounds against Martin and Shavers. It would have really broken up Ali's rhythm.
    1975: Ron Lyle. If Lyle was better prepared for the 15-round distance and was a shade more aggressive, he could have beaten Ali. This one seems especially probable as he did almost beat Ali.
    1976: Jimmy Young. No need to discuss since Young whipped him anyway.

    I also think that Cleveland Williams could have beaten Ali if they'd fought before the gunshot incident. Ali did well against punchers, but this was a puncher who could box well. I also think Bonavena's pressure fighter style could have beaten ring rusty Ali in 1970.
     
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  2. mark ant

    mark ant Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mildenberger gave Ali a lot of problems, he didn`t like his southpaw style and Karl also cross his glove across his chin like Norton and Frazier did each time Ali punched blocking a lot of shots while dodging at the same time. Alo looked awful agaist Jurgen Blin and got caught a lot, he couldn`t move with much speed because he was out of shape. Cooper nearly knocked Ali out in their first clash.
     
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  3. William Walker

    William Walker Active Member Full Member

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    I don't believe any of those guys could've beaten Ali though.
     
  4. RightLeftCombo

    RightLeftCombo Member Full Member

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    Foreman in '76 or 77 against Ali in the States would have been interesting imo.

    He might have beaten Ali, maybe not, but
    George lost to Ali in Zaire and lost to Jimmy Young in Puerto Rico so it seems he didn't travel too good.
    Maybe he would have lost to Ali again, but a rematch would have good. It's likely a very tough match for Ali in those years. Of course once George lost to Young, that went out the window.

    Not saying Henry Cooper would have beaten him, Ali likely beats him anyway, but cuts really hampered Henry in their meetings. Ali's fast punches slashed up him, but Cooper gave pretty good accounts of himself up til then.

    So who have beaten Ali?
    Maybe Foreman, maybe a better prepared Lyle with more experience.
    Shavers hurt him, but couldn't stop him. They probably have to stop Ali and that's the difficulty, even with post-prime Ali.
     
  5. RightLeftCombo

    RightLeftCombo Member Full Member

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    Ali was struggling in '77. By 78, Ali was 36 years old and ready to be taken, as he was vs Spinks. He won the rematch.
     
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  6. DanDaly

    DanDaly Member Full Member

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    I don’t really agree with the names you’ve mentioned. If they could have beaten Ali then they would have done it imo.
     
  7. William Walker

    William Walker Active Member Full Member

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    who would you put?
     
  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It is true that Henry Cooper nearly knocked out Muhammad Ali in their first bout on June 18 1963, no excuses, but as Ali was winning the fight, he began to play with Cooper, which is not the most intelligent tactic, then Henry nailed him with that very wicked left hook, in their next encounter on May 21 1966, Ali cut poor Henry to ribbons, no knockdown there, Ali by TKO 6. Karl Mildenberger I think gave Ali his hardest bout when they clashed on Sept 10 1966, Karl though was very vulnerable to a straight right as Howard Cossel said in the telecast, remember it quite well.
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ernie Shavers might have done it if he had committed to the attack more.
     
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  10. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This. Dundee even warned Ali not to underestimate Cooper or he could end up regretting it and he almost did.

    Ali was very lucky that Dundee was such a good cornerman much like Marciano was very lucky to have Brown in his corner, since he likely would’ve lost to Charles when Charles cut him.
     
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  11. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This is true.
     
  12. DanDaly

    DanDaly Member Full Member

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    Not really anyone. I’d say Frazier from the Thrilla in Manila. If the fight wasn’t stopped I feel like he could have received the UD. I’ve watched the fight twice but only once to score it and had him up. That’s just my opinion.

    Other than that I really just don’t think the guys Ali beat had what it took to beat him.
     
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  13. William Walker

    William Walker Active Member Full Member

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    Actually Frazier was behind 15 points. He would had to have knocked Ali out in round 15 (UD not possible), although Ali had taken enough punishment that it is possible that Frazier might have stopped him. I personally don't think most of the guys in my lost were likely to beat Ali, merely that they had the skill and toughness to do so. However, I must say that Norton beat Ali twice, and although I gave II to Ali, Norton could have won that one too. Imagine, if Norton had won all three decisions!
     
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  14. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    Could have versus should have! With pros that big who can swat anything is possible. That’s one of the things that makes heavyweight fights exciting. Even against Ali there is the punchers chance especially when you start bringing up names like Shavers, Foreman and Frazier! It’s also makes it comical when poster bring hypothetical matches requiring time travel and predict what would happen with absolute certitude! It is hard enough to guess what is going to happen with guys in the same era.
     
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  15. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Anything can happen in boxing. Doug Jones gave his all and ended up being just a shade short.
    Cooper could have been awarded a DQ win or at worst a NC because Ali was illegally given smelling salts in between rounds - an error by his corner (Dundee) as smelling salts were still legal in the USA but not in the UK. The ref didn’t notice.
    Jimmy Young beat Ali imo. Ali was overweight but any version would look somewhat bad against Young.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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