H2H Heavyweight King: Who comes out on top?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012.


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  1. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If we were to take the Top 25 Heavyweight Champions in History and put them in a Round Robin Tournament where they all have to face each other; which fighter would come out with the fewest amount of losses?

    Top 25 Heavyweight Champions

    1. Joe Louis
    2. Muhammad Ali

    3. Jack Johnson
    4. Rocky Mariano
    5. Larry Holmes

    6. Mike Tyson
    7. Lennox Lewis
    8. George Foreman
    9. Joe Frazier
    10. Evander Holyfield

    11. Sonny Liston
    12. Jack Dempsey
    13. Harry Wills
    14. Jim Jeffries
    15. Sam Langford
    16. Wladimir Klitschko
    17. Jersey Joe Walcott
    18. Ezzard Charles
    19. Floyd Patterson
    20. Riddick Bowe
    21. Vitaly Klitschko
    22. Max Schmeling
    23. Ken Norton
    24. Gene Tunney
    25. Max Baer


    This has nothing to do with greatness and everything to do with styles, so while one fighter may rank ahead of another it is entirely possible that on a H2H basis the a fighter who ranks lower in greatness makes up for it in H2H ability.

    And as a further task, who will your top fighter lose too?
     
    ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012
    ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012
    #1
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Verry tough question to answer!

    The format that you have suggested, would favour:

    Fighters who did well against a wide range of styles.

    Fighters who were consistent.

    Fighters who could hold it together, after a few tough outings.

    Fighters who did not have a single critical weakness, that could be exploited.


    Basicaly, it would probably be the guys who enjoyed longevity in their own eras.

    Ther is probably a reason why your #1 and #2 hold those positions.
     
    janitor, Jan 27, 2012
    janitor, Jan 27, 2012
    #2
  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I see Liston ending up with the best record. Ali, second.
     
    Stonehands89, Jan 27, 2012
    Stonehands89, Jan 27, 2012
    #3
  4. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Interesting.

    Incidentally who do you think beats Liston?
     
    ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012
    ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012
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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    My main objection to that, would be his inability to maintain focus once he held the title.

    Might play a role here.

    On paper, I agree that he had virtualy everything.
     
    janitor, Jan 27, 2012
    janitor, Jan 27, 2012
    #5
  6. TAC602

    TAC602 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You're on a roll, Stonehands. :deal
     
    TAC602, Jan 27, 2012
    TAC602, Jan 27, 2012
    #6
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ali
    Louis

    Liston.
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    #7
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You are two thirds right.
     
    janitor, Jan 27, 2012
    janitor, Jan 27, 2012
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Fair enough, but Liston took on his first name in '54 and his last name in '70. In between he lost 4 fights, of them to the greatest HW of all (or second). That's holding things together not bad at all. He was arguably never beaten in his prime.

    There were also circumstances surrounding his post-title collapse, not least the emergence of his literal stylistic cryptonite at the beginning of one of the the most celebrated runs in boxing history, ties to organised crime, alcohol and possibly drug addiction.

    Take a 25 year old Liston and add good management and I'd pick him to beat an awful lot of these guys in a row.
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    #9
  10. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Louis, Ali and Marciano, especially over 15 rounds
     
    Bummy Davis, Jan 27, 2012
    Bummy Davis, Jan 27, 2012
    #10
  11. TAC602

    TAC602 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Langford is the x-factor for me.

    P4P he squashes all these guys, of course. But I'm not so quick to short-sell his abilities either. He knew exactly what he was doing in the ring and looks far ahead of his time.
     
    TAC602, Jan 27, 2012
    TAC602, Jan 27, 2012
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The answer to this one is where the fascination with HW boxing lies. Liston could bang out Marciano, Lewis, Walcott and Wills in quick order then drop a decision to Tunney, who is way down your list. But they'd all drop odd ones, I reckon, apart from perhaps Ali.
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2012
    #12
  13. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Assuming they were to fight 4 times per year it would take 7 years for this tourney to finish.

    This would clearly favor fighters who fought frequently, and carried longevity.
     
    ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012
    ironchamp, Jan 27, 2012
    #13
  14. Guyfawkes

    Guyfawkes Than who was phone?! Full Member

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    Joe Louis
     
    Guyfawkes, Jan 27, 2012
    Guyfawkes, Jan 27, 2012
    #14
  15. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali
    Louis

    and Lewis
     
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Jan 27, 2012
    Vic-JofreBRASIL, Jan 27, 2012
    #15
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