H2H: Joe Louis vs. Other Heavyweights

Who did Louis fight who hit as hard as Tua?

Max Baer was too busy soiling his drawers to even land a punch. Buddy wasn't as big a puncher. Marciano was certainly powerful but more an attrition puncher when compared to Tua. What I am saying, is that if Tua gets the opportunities Galento got, I am going with Tua.

 

Max Baer landed a fair few flush shots if you watch the film and nobody questions his credentials as a puncher.

Buddy Baer has one of the best records of first round knockouts in heavyweight history. Call him the Shannon Briggs of his era if you like.

Even Gallento hit like a mack truck.

Louis could take a prety solid shot and often had to given the nature of his style.

 

Louis vs. Ali - Ali gets decision, not easily, but without debate

Louis vs. Frazier - Louis is probably good enough to keep Frazier off, takes a decision or late KO

Louis vs. Liston - Here again, I think Louis could deal with the power, so late KO or decision.

Louis vs. Jack Johnson - This is a bit tougher, Johnson's true strength here is his intelligence, though I think Louis could get the decision.

Louis vs. Dempsey - Louis by mid-round KO

Louis vs. Tunney - If Tunney had enough time to study Louis, I pick him for this one. If they go into it without knowing much about each other, I pick Louis.

Louis vs. Marciano - Louis all the way. Rock was great, but he was getting beat up by Walcot. Louis got Walcot twice (though the first was not a great indicator). Louis weathers Marciano's storm and takes a decision.

Louis vs. Patterson - Louis wins this easiest of all. He would have knocked Patterson down multiple times to take a late stoppage.

Louis vs. Foreman - Foreman would have wrecked Louis. I am sorry.

Louis vs. Holmes - Holmes would have won a tough decision.

Louis vs. Tyson - Tyson would also have wrecked Louis. Too strong, too fast.

Louis vs. Holyfield - This would be a lot of fun, perhaps the most even fight. I kind of lean towards Holyfield, but it might be a modern bias. I think Louis could pull of this decision.

Louis vs. Bowe - I hardly know Bowe, so I will not answer this one.

Louis vs. Tua - I think Louis could have handled Tua, as long as he didn't get nailed, I think he wins a UD while really frustrating Tua.

Louis vs Both Klit Bros. - Both brothers probably win. Wlad by being boringly careful and staying away. Vitali by being more exciting and toe to toe, but too powerful for Louis and able to take Louis' shots. Wlad by decision, Vitali by mid to late KO.

 

I think that Foreman would be broken down and stopped by Louis. Louis has too much speed, neater, more compact and utterly devestating punches, is perhaps the most deadly combination puncher in the divisions history and has the much better fundamentals. In addition to Foreman not possessing great defence I think this is a poor stylistic matachup for him. Tyson would fare better but would eventually be outgunned too, lasting a few more rounds than Foreman.

 

Ali included? That's a dicey one IMO. I'm of the opinion that Louis has a fine chance of perhaps beating the post-Exile Ali by decision, if he makes Ali come to him and picks his shots very well I think it'd be the ideal gameplan to pull it off. In addition to the fact that 70's Ali didn't have that capacity to constantly dance for 15 rounds, I think it's possible Louis would outwork him down those crucial final rounds.

I pick prime (60's) Ali by UD.

 

Actually I think its possible that Tyson moved a bit quicker. He turned pro at the age of 18 and was a dominant lineal champion by the age of 21. Nevertheless, any allowences that can be made for Louis against Schmeling on the basis of inexperience have to be kept to a minimal. When a fighter has the amateur credentials that Louis had plus 27 pro wins and victories over two world champions and several contenders, he's either ready or he isn't. Louis lost that fight because he didn't train seriously. Experience shouldn't have had anything to do with it by that point.

seasoned perhaps. But did he have the advantage of being a naturally built heavyweight the way that Louis did, not to mention a whole career fought at that weight class? He also lost some of those big fights you speak of.

This can hardly be used as a comparison. Louis had fought 5 times within the same fiscal year that Schmeling had fought 0. Two of those matches included his wins over Primo Carnero and Max Baer.

So Schmeling was the benefactor of impotent judging as well?

 

Louis vs Ali- Ali UD

Louis vs Frazier- Louis TKO

Louis vs Liston- about even coming into the two-digit rounds but expect Joe to pull away late as Liston is demoralized, either stopping Sonny or taking the judges' decision

Louis vs Johnson- Louis in a stinker; Jack would spoil enough to make it close

Louis vs Dempsey- Louis TKO

Louis vs Tunney- Louis late stoppage

Louis vs Marciano- Louis

Louis vs Patterson- Louis by TKO between rounds 2 to 4

Louis vs Foreman- not a match-up he'd win every time, but Louis would get the better

Louis vs Holmes- Holmes more often than not

Louis vs Tyson- stylistically Tyson's fight, but it's questionable if he can get Joe out of there early

Louis vs Holyfield- Louis pulls it out of the bag while he's trailing on points in all probability

Louis vs Bowe- Louis TKO

Louis vs Tua- no matter what is made of Tua's chin, ultimately he is out of his depth here

Louis vs Klitschko- it's not so much the size that's the problem as much as the reach; Wlad is just smart enough to keep his distance for most of the fight, before the end comes in the form of a chopping combination in the 6th by the great Joe Louis

Louis vs Klitschko- Vitali's power and unorthodoxy might see him through some rounds, but the result is all up in the air

 

Louis vs. Ali - Ali decision.

Louis vs. Frazier - Louis KO.

Louis vs. Liston - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Jack Johnson - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Dempsey - Louis KO.

Louis vs. Tunney - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Marciano - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Patterson - Louis KO.

Louis vs. Foreman - Foreman KO.

Louis vs. Holmes - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Tyson - Tyson KO.

Louis vs. Holyfield - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Bowe - Louis decision.

Louis vs. Tua - Louis decision.

Louis vs Wlad - Louis TKO or Wlad KO.

Louis vs. Vitali - Vitali TKO.

And one not on your list:

Louis vs Lewis - Lewis KO.

You'll see a pattern here. I think Louis has a problem with the biggest (great/near great) heavyweights in history. I don't think he'd live with the 1988 Tyson either.

 

Well, you sell Schmeling a bit short here.
The DQ in the first fight was rightfully. Watch the fight, I posted the video in the Sharkey-Baer thread.
The second Sharkey fight nearly everybody thought Schmeling was the better fighter, even the referee of the fight Gunboat Smith said so in "In this corner".
The draw against Uzscudun was in Uzcudun´s hometown and very likely should have been a win for Max - he beat him easily the other two times they fought.
Baer beat Schmeling but the fight was competative and about even up to the stoppage.
Hamas beat Schmeling but got beaten easily when they fought again shortly there after.

I won´t argue that Louis was too inexperienced but you twist the argument on Schmeling a bit to fit your argumentation.

 

Weather the Uzcudun and Sharkey fights were bad decisions is subject to question, and frankly not very relevant in this particular case. Louis utterly destroyed Baer, Uzcadan and Sharkey ( later ), who all either troubled or legitimately beat Schmeling. Also, these fights do not account for Schmeling being out of the ring for a full year prior to the Louis fight, nor that he was fighting on Louis's home turf.

Weather you think I'm putting a twist on things to suit an agenda or not, I think one thing is rather clear. Schmeling was rightfully the underdog in that fight.