H2H: Peak James Toney v Peak Joe Calzaghe

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It's because Toney struggled with fighters on Calzaghe's level like Nunn and below Calzaghe's level like Dave Tiberi. He never actually beat a better 160-168 pounder than Joe, nor one as resilient and stylistically challenging maybe Nunn aside, who was one of the most lackadaisical fighters of that period, and his career potential was really ruined by it. Styles DO play into boxing. While other factors are just as important, I don't see how you could fault anyone but Toney in those circumstances, as he was the only one to ever come in "out of shape", "unmotivated", etc.

So you think he'd learn how to press, improve his footwork, counter out-boxers, etc all for just one fight? Just watch how he performs against those styles, please. Toney was very good at what he did, one of the best, but he was a limited fighter, and IMO wouldn't have beaten any legitimately great MW's period.

 

sweet pea how can you call toney a limited fighter hes a genius in the ring watch toney vs jirov and then watch calzaghe vs salem when joe fights defensive fighters he just trys to touch them as much as possible with quick slaps ,jirov style is similar to calzaghes in this sense watch the fight and see how toney suckers him in and takes him apart and look at joe look like crap against counterpunchers

 

I'd favor Hopkins in both matchups.

 

pacfan toneys hopkins prime fight is to close to call and prime hopkins beats calzaghe pretty easy

 

He stood his ground and waited for the wide swarmer to come in, at which point he picked him off with crisp counters. He was great at that game. Against an out-boxer who won't give him the same countering opportunities or easy pickings he wasn't nearly as effective. I mean he was limited in that he only really thrived against certain styles due to his lack of mobility.

Both Toney and Calzaghe have had pretty shitty performances, though I'd say more often than not in their biggest fights Calzaghe has risen to the occasion(against counterpunchers Hopkins and Kessler). I think a guy like prime Hopkins is well suited to beating Calzaghe due to his outside game and countering ability, while Toney is simply too stationary and his countering game relies on picking apart opponents from close range.

 

Hopkins has the far better out-boxing game and movement than Toney, which gives him the clear edge in my book, as he could out-box Toney from long range when he wanted. Not to mention his inside game is good enough to cope.

 

sweetpea look at how joe fights counter punchers he comes onto them swarming with activity and no power thats how he fought against hopkins and he looked like crap a lot to do with hopkins old man holding but hopkins still made joe come to him- joe against kessler calzaghe was comin onto him until he got caught flush with some tasty shots and then joe turned counter puncher and showed his savvy by makin him fight his fight when it comes to ring generalship toneys one of the best ever and he would of made joe keep comin into his range and bam keep countering him

 

toney is a master at suckin people ,wheter its givin them **** before the fight talkin to them during the fight I like joe and I have got all his fights on video as well as 50 of toneys and I see that joe always fights the way I mentioned against counter punchers swarming tryin to touch them as much as possible I think he would play into james hands

 

It's hard to go past Lights Out...too crafty for Joe.

 

How can you call Calzaghe and "out boxer" when he has a tendency to square up and throw? He can't get out in time to avoid the counters coming from Toney. Not to mention the fact that although you downplay Toney's footwork, he is exellent at cutting off the ring and force the action from reluctant fighters.

I think you're mixing up the recent out of shape Toney with the Toney of ole. Toney of old was very good at moving to intercept opponents, thus forcing the opportunity for him to counter. Calzaghe is too happy to engage in exchanges, which would be his downfall against Toney.

 

Well said tettsou Im glad you can see the way joe fights against counterpunchers to I thought I was the only one

 

First of all, no. Toney was never good at forcing the fight. He made it work a few times(not without trouble) against the likes of Tim Littles, otherwise he always looked awkward when forcing the fight or not allowed to play his own.

Secondly, Calzaghe does have a tendancy to do what you said, which is why I think this fight's close and have said that Toney will counter Calzaghe effectively at times. I just think Calzaghe's in and out movement and footspeed is so good that he'll be able to play the boxing game effectively. He's good at adapting as well, so I figure he'd play the game best suited to his strength, which would be to box from the outside. And while not as technically skilled at clean-infighting as Toney, he is very crafty there himself, so I think in certain instances he could hold his own, though Toney is the better in-fighter.

I never even consider the old, fat Toney when rating him as a fighter, I have seen more than enough(most in fact) of a prime Toney, and it was never his forte to do what you're saying, though he did show better movement and ability to fight in the center of the ring in a more traditional boxing sense against the likes of McCallum. Still, he never had great footwork and was always flat-footed. His success relied mostly on his upper-body, and it was much easier for him to play the counter-puncher or inside fighter because if it.

 

He was forced to fight that way against Hopkins because of his movement. He forced Joe to play the aggressor or risk simply getting nothing done. That's not Joe's game, and that's why I think a prime Hopkins beats him. Toney on the other hand wouldn't force Calzaghe to play the aggressor, he'd more than likely plant himself in the middle of the ring looking to score his own shots at times while Calzaghe would box him from the outside with the occasional flurry and tie up on the inside. You guys underrate how much Toney's lack of movement hurt his game against certain fighters and styles.