H2H,who beats a prime Tyson

It's fascinating how so many people talk about this myth of a "prime" tyson. The true fight was beaten out of this boy by a facking journeyman with a very questionablely weak chin and weak mind.

Tyson turned out to be a journeyman level career for the skills they created. Weakest mental midget that's name gets thrown around in atg rankings , which is facking crazy

 

Go back to general man. I don't think you've reminded anyone today that Joshua is the best heavyweight of all time.

 

Leave it to a Tyson thread to bring out the worst posters. It actually livens up the place since we need a laugh every so often.

 

I don't think there's a boxer with more extreme detractors than Tyson.

The best part is when they go full Teddy Atlas pseudo-psychology mode and accuse of him of mental weakness because he got knocked out...as if he just decided to lay down on his own. :-(

 

I wouldn't say Tyson was merely "a bit off form". All accounts say he was horrible in sparring and was grossly out of shape when arriving in Tokyo. He had made a bad habit of this since before the Bruno fight and it eventually caught up to him. Not making excuses, just pointing out facts leading up to his poor performance. Sure 220 might be his best fighting weight but fighting weight doesn't prepare you for fight, proper preparation does that. Age wise, sure, Tyson was in his prime. But fighting wise he was not which is clearly evident in his prior fights with Bruno and Truth Williams.

I disagree. A pumped up Patterson would be Patterson on steroids, or someone with the same dynamics and mindset of Floyd Patterson. Tyson was 30 lbs heavier, owned a superior chin, superior defense, superior offense, superior power, superior mindset and was overall a superior fighter. I would probably diagnose Tyson as a combo featuring the best azzets of Patterson and best azzets of Sonny Liston. That would be a better comparison, wouldn't you think?

Sure, it's all based on opinion. However, do you really want to be clumped in the same class as Foxy, W a s s, Swagdel & Abdel, Slavic, and the rest whose ONLY posts on ESB land in Tyson threads? I'd understand if you had a solid case or argument, but claiming Tyson can't beat Liston because he's a "pumped up Patterson" is irrational. Maybe you don't care.

Sure. Head 2 Head I believe Mike Tyson is the best heavyweight to lace up the gloves. But I can explain my methods of how and why. Saying he should be even money or better against any other heavyweight isn't unreasonable, but I've stated in the past which heavyweights would give him trouble.

I used to think George Foreman would beat Tyson based on styles. I realize it was my way of thinking from the herd mentality. But watching both men closely through the advent of youtube I've changed my mind. Watching Sonny Liston in all his glory made me realize he was he most sound fundamentally heavyweight after Joe Louis. I just don't see the obsession with Liston, unless there's something about him I don't know.

First and foremost I'm a boxing fan. THEN I'm a fan of incredible fights. And THEN I choose my favorite fighters out of the bunch. Most of my favorite fighters I have chosen because on film I think they're the absolute best at what they do. Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Pernell Whitaker, Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler are fighters I feel are Head 2 Head monsters. They're the best I've ever seen on film.

Men like Jack Dempsey, Larry Holmes, Riddik Bowe, Nigel Benn, Hector Camacho, Thomas Hearns, Michael Spinks, Frank Bruno, Julian Jackson, Terry norris, Ike Quartey, Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, James Toney etc. are fighters I've enjoyed watching over the years and have chosen as favorites as well.

There are also fighters I've had disdain for, including Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather, John Ruiz, Wlad Klitschko, Panchito Bojado, Camacho Jr., Lennox Lewis, Fernando Vargas, Buster Douglas, Andrew Golota, etc. But I like to think I'm fair with my judgement of fantasy match ups if these fighters are ever brought up.

I believe Mike Tyson is the best heavyweight, not the greatest, because he looks tremendous on film and accomplished a lot in that short period of time. I don't think guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Holyfield, Lewis can replicate what he did in the 80's. He didn't bowl over bums. Anyone who uses the word "bum" should be banned from this site. But then again, freedom of speech is supposedly what this country is all about.

 

Tyson getting ko'd has very little to do with how mentally weak he was as a fighter. If you think accepting a beating means ones mentally strong, you're watching the wrong facking sport.

Tyson is mentally weak which had been proven in the ring more than a couple times. Tyson has accepted defeat too many times, had purposely dq'd himself instead of trying to beat a old odlyfield and tried taking the easy way out vs Botha and the big Polish dude..

Tho he won those fights in a much harder fight than he really wanted to give. Possibly knowing he was going to flunk the drug test, I give him a pass for not wanting to really go to war.

The way some talk about him as a true atg is crazy to me. Sure, he looked the part for a few years but over the course of his career he accepted defeat too much for me to rate him as a top hw, even of his Era he wasn't top 1 or 2..

Tyson had to have everything going his way or he wasn't capable of beating any A level fighter. The absolute best fighter he was able to beat over his 15 years was a retired holmes.

Spinks was a tiny hw who was really a lhw looking to cash out. "Prime tyson" whenever I hear that all that comes to mind is a media creation, for the attention he still gets one would think he went 50/0 with 50 ko's against all the best fighters.

And yes, joshua is so much more a destructive force than tyson, and would kill him inside 6 rounds 100% of the time. Tyson would try and stand blow for blow and end up in the 10th row.

IF Joshua ever lives down to Tysons level, I'll be the first to admit I was conned. You'll NEVER ever see joshua accept defeat, never see him crumble at his absolute peak, at the hands of a hand picked journeyman...

 

Tyson's best win for me is the one against Trevor Berbick. KO2
Second best is the one against Tony Tucker. W12
Third best might be James "Bonecrusher" Smith. W12

 

You must be Joshua's kid brother.

 

You don't think those fighters could replicate what Tyson did? I'd say that everyone of them would do better than Tyson did with the same opponents, I'd put money on it...

 

Look, Tyson was a short-armed, short (perhaps only 5'10) stocky heavyweight with a peek-a-boo defense.
I happen to think a long-armed skillful boxer-puncher/bomber of Liston's quality would pierce that defense immediately and continue to take him apart.

We could go on for hours on all the details of some fantasy fight but it's pointless.
You think Tyson would beat a prime Liston like he did a declining Pinklon Thomas, that's your pick.
I think Liston would KO Tyson inside 3 rounds. Based on my own assessment of styles.
Neither of us will ever be right.

I think you probably overrate and overstimate Tyson's potential ability against men with physical advantages in height and/or reach, based on his efforts against men like Biggs, Bruno, Tucker, Ribalta ... but I think those guys were a far cry from the likes of Liston, Ali and Foreman.

Stylistically, I'm convinced Tyson is at a bad disadvantage.
Foreman I think would perhaps beat Tyson even quicker than he did Frazier, but then Tyson has more chances to upset Foreman than he does Liston, imo. Because Foreman would possibly leave himself open for Tyson to mount an attack. Very possible but I'd bet on Foreman.
Liston I'd be more sure of.

 

So you think that all those guys could overcome so many styles and be consistently dominant across 9 consecutive fights? Baseless and probably not realistic.

Again, far too many styles involved which isn't appreciated enough. Foreman couldn't live with a good boxer so what makes you think he'd beat Tucker, Biggs, Tubbs, Holmes, Spinks, easier than Tyson did?

Holyfield whom I consider superior to Tyson is well known for fighting down to the level of his opposition, if he could make Bert Cooper look elite then he's not beating these guys with ease. No way, no how.

 

You're seriously saying that a prime Foreman wouldn't beat those list of names?

There's no way Holyfield would get KTFO by Buster Douglas either

 

You said all of them would do better than Tyson. I say that's ridiculous.

Guys like Tucker, Spinks, Tubbs were just as good as Jimmy Young, believe it or not. I think Foreman beats them all, especially the young aggressive version but there's no way he's looking better than Tyson doing it.

 

There's no way Tyson is looking better than Foreman against the likes of Smith and Tucker, he'd also knock Biggs out quicker than Mike. To top it off he wouldn't be getting knocked out by Douglas either...

 

I can imagine Tucker making him look pretty bad tbh, but point taken on Smith.

He obviously wouldn't lose to Douglas either, but likewise Tyson wouldn't lose to Jimmy Young.