Had Frazier won the Thrilla in Manilla...

I think Ali solidified himself as the greatest Heavyweight, when he dominated & KO'd the seemingly invincible, devastating 40-0 Peak Foreman in Zaire, while significantly Past-Prime himself.

 

Everyone still wanted to see him handle the unfinished business with Frazier who had taken apart Quarry in impressive fashion.

 

OK, but Frazier was at least as past-prime in Manila, so if he had won, how close behind Ali would you rate him ?

 

I already said, Frazier would jump from #9 to #6.

 

God, even if Ali lost two out of three to Frazier, YOU"D STILL RATE HIM NUMBER ONE? No wonder the judges always pulled for him. He seemingly has the magical ability to impress people even when he's losing. Of course Ali would be lower and Frazier would be higher if this happened. And with Foreman as common opponent, his performances against them would render the three equal, which IMO is about how it was anyway.

 

I am kinda of shock to see people rank Ali number 1 or 2 if Ali did lose 2 of 3 vs Frazier.

I think Joe Frazier would have a good arguement imo to be put over Ali.

 

Give Frazier Manila, and Ali still has advantages to being ranked higher Joe can't overcome. For starters, Joe was two years younger. Secondly, a peak for peak match up could only have occurred with an active Ali in defense of the title in 1969 or 1970. Without that scenario having taken place, the testimony in favor of 1960s Ali over 1970s Ali by Chuvalo and Patterson would have given Muhammad the benefit of the doubt. Beyond that, there are their relative performances when past peak against a peak Foreman. While I do believe a peak Smoke could have beaten the likes of Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, Liston or Mac Foster, etc...the fact is he never beat that caliber of massive puncher, while Ali posted dominant decisive wins over more different styles of top sluggers, swarmers, boxers and boxer-punchers. As champion, Muhammad defended five times in 1966 alone. Take away his exile, and he may well become the first champion in any weight division with 30 successful world title defenses.

 

Ali lost the third fight, it was not even close.


As for "what if" I don't rank Ali in the top 3 anyway so it does not matter.

 

Exactly.

:good

 

Who do you have in the top 3 ?

 

No the result would solidly tip the favor to Joe Louis.

 

Futch stopped the fight just before Ali had a chance to quit...

 

Ali would've came out for that 15th round, no doubt in my mind, his warrior spirit would make him.

Ali won the 13th by landing the cleaner punches & staggering Frazier with a right which ejected his mouthpiece with blood, then he pummelled the reeling, totally exhausted & almost blind Frazier with cruel unanswered punches in round 14.

This is coming from someone who is a bigger fan of Smokin' Joe, than of Ali.

 

Ken Norton won the Ali vs Norton II aswell...!!!

He also Won the third fight aswell..!!

 

Blindness is what made him want to quit against Liston in Miami. There was nothing wrong with his vision in Manila. He was beating the **** out of a sight impaired Frazier in rounds 13 and 14. Immediately following the conclusion, Muhammad told Don Dunphy that round ten was when he had his doubts, not prior to the bell for round 15. By round 14, he was actually knocking Joe backwards. There was no possibility whatsoever of Ali not answering the final bell to touch gloves. Then, most likely, Padilla rescues a blinded Smoke from further punishment after about 45 seconds, the length of time he subsequently said he would have allowed Joe to mount a rally before calling a halt. Carlos escorted Frazier to Futch at the bell ending the fourteenth. Dunphy's first live comment after the bell was, "That was the biggest round of the fight for anybody...Frazier--was within a punch or two of going down!"