Had they fought tyson in tokyo feb 90

I agree that Tyson was thoroughly defeated, I believe a major part of that was Buster's style and his ability to carry out his fight plan, but I also believe it was so one sided because Tyson was underprepared. I believe its very likely Douglas would win again if he was in that form but it would not have been as one sided if Tyson was prepared, probably a points win. that factor plays a major part, if you are in the camp that believes Tyson was at his best in Tokyo then of course you will believe he will lose to a bloated fat version of Douglas.

The uninspired Buster that fought Holyfield would never have been able to carry out that blueprint. To me its nuts to believe that.

 

Now I know you are just a troll you can't even be original with your insults.

Henceforth you shall be ignored like german shepherd dog shiite on 5th avenue

 

I dont think it was because of fighting style only. Some boxers that beat Douglas like Tucker, Ferguson and even later on, Savarese, those guys posed little threat to Tyson.

People who said Tyson personal problem and lack of motivation are just an excuse are oddly enough keep mentioning how Douglas was out of shape, gased out or not motivated when he lost, double standard is obvious here. Douglas beat Tyson in Tokyo fair and square, but the thing is, he never gave Tyson rematch while Holyfield gave Tyson rematch even though he legitimately beat him. Tyson gave Ruddock rematch too.


I think Tyson was clearly unmotivated and lost his determination to maintain his boxing ability and physical condition by the time he met Douglas. He only had 2 fights in previous year where he already abondened his original technique. Again, this was Tyson own fault not Douglas.

However, Tyson did look determined after this lost and it was shown in his 4 straight victories before he was jailed. 2 of them which a typical Tyson fast KO and knocking down Ruddock multiple times, Tillman beat him twice in amateur and Stewart was quite capable as he went to full 12 round against Foreman and Holyfield. Against Ruddock , Tyson proof at the time he's still capable to trading punches for full 12 rounds. He was clearly in much better condition than he did in Tokyo. Rooney said Tyson basically bloated to almost 250 pounds and losing his weight by starving himself 2 weeks leading to the fight.

I always wonder why they never meet again at least in mid or late 90's. They both fought Savarese around the same time too.

 

Agreed, Douglas was never anything like this before or after. He was sensational and showed not only great skill and ability but heart and mental strength as well unlike at certain other times. It was a once in a lifetime Douglas, absolutely.

 

Rooney said this yet he wasn't in the camp, alrighty then..... I've pissed all over that myth about him being grossly overweight 2 weeks before the fight, please don't make me do it again.

 

I bet you do that with all the opponents Tyson defeated clearly.
I mean, which versions of Tyrell Biggs, Pinklon Thomas and Tony Tucker would you give a great chance of beating PRIME Mike Tyson ?
Do you think Mike Tyson might have been very lucky to get them when they were not on their best night, ill-prepared or whatever ?

 

Here's the thing though, I can be objective when it comes to Tyson even though I am a fan. It's not important to me that he isn't the best ever. I am a realist, my point is when dealing with Tyson critics there is no middle ground. i can deal with other prime fighters beating Tyson but I question him being at his best for Douglas and post prison, I don't think he was the same but I can at least debate it and what was to blame.

i think there is a certain aspect of being around at the right time for Tyson, he wiped out some sub par competition but sometimes I think those opponents get underrated. Tyson's competition is comparable to other great fighters in some cases but he seems to get penalised more. But whatever the case he wasn't facing all timers so I can agree that. I also find it hard to imagine he would have went unbeaten if his career was early to mid 90s with bowe, Holyfield and Lewis around.

Anyway my previous post clearly state I am objective about it?

 

Yep it was a once in a lifetime performance. It's such a shame he couldn't maintain that form, he could have done a lot of damage in the division. I have no doubt that he would have faired a lot better against Holyfield, if he was in Tokyo form it would have been a war even if he did lose, but you could see he was uninspired. Was like seeing two different fighters...

 

That's fair enough. I don't know if all "Tyson critics" are as harsh as that. I think whether Tyson was "at his best" for the lossto Douglas is debatable as any fighter losing in similar fashion, and we can go into detail and analyse all the circumstances with any win or loss, that's true ........ but at the end of the day when we assess prime Tyson I feel we have to look at the Douglas fight as much as any of the others, and simply look at the fight objectively, whereas some "Tyson fans" act like it's unfair to even bring that fight up at all.

To be fair to every champion in history, they all have a story about when they lost their championship. There's always an excuse or several excuses, and there's plenty of stuff thrown around to suggest they weren't at their best. Maybe no one's a their best when they lose. That's just life.
Still, we have to rate it how we see it. Every fighter in history gets marked down for losses they suffered in their prime or close to prime. The same rules apply to them all.

The truth is, most Tyson fans don't want to hear what excuses Pinklon Thomas or Tony Tucker might have for losing to Tyson, they would dismiss that 100%.
But when it comes to Tyson getting smashed up by Douglas, there's the long list of excuses and circumstances to be heard.
That's not objective, is it ?

Tyson beat his fair share of decent contenders, impressively too.
That's more reason why no one should feel a need to make excuses for the time he was KO'd by a decent contender in 1990.

 

I think Douglas had a few nights where he boxed really well and showed the type skills his displayed in Tokyo.
It's just that he never fought a fighter of Tyson's style and reputation.
Douglas simply wasn't an exciting fighter. Competent and well-rounded skills, he had plenty of tools, but he wasn't flashy or thrilling. He needed a fighter like Tyson to look good against.

If you watch his fight with Mike Williams he looked really good. That was an entertaining beatdown against a solid prospect who'd just given a fit Witherspoon a tough fight. Douglas was knocking him down with jabs.
Against Trevor Berbick and Oliver McCall I think he boxed really well too, it just wasn't exciting stuff, it was skillful heavyweight boxing, which frankly often looks dull to spectators.

 

Agree.

Douglas comfortably outboxed McCall and Berbick, he also looked impressive when he knocked out Mike Williams, and he was also giving Tony Tucker a boxing lesson till the later rounds.

He wasn't a one-hit wonder like some people claim. While he may have had some flaws, he was pretty good boxer.

 

I think a number of fighters could have potentially beaten Tyson that night. He was a man who went from fighting multiple times annually to only seeing 93 seconds of ring action in the previous 12 months.. He was floored by Greg Page in sparring in the weeks leading up to the contest. He was reported to have been seen out late at night on the town within a few evenings prior to the match. His original team had been all but wiped out with the new Don King regime and had thugs in sun glasses hanging around his training sessions. come fight night his cornerman had little to offer in the way of advice and were even treating his swelling with a condom filled with water.. I have never bought into this notion that an unbeatable breed of champion was born that evening known as "Tokyo Douglas" and nor have I ever believed that Tyson simply " wasn't that good." I think Tyson was very poorly prepared mentally and possibly even physically, while in the opposite corner you had a man who gave it everything he had with nothing to lose and everything to gain..

 

It was his best night without fail. Yes he looked extremely talented in some other fights but this was against Mike Tyson and he had to go thru some pain as well to get home.

Boxing lesson or not he was stopped against Tucker and imo quit. He showed the skills but not the heart and determination. Perhaps even shape. In the Tyson fight he showed heart, determination and was in great shape.

 

Or maybe the punch didn't have that much power behind it? Tyson caught him as clean as you could hope for but still couldn't keep him down. It's well known that Tyson lost a lot of sting in his shots in the later rounds .

 

I see nothing but excuses here.