Had they fought tyson in tokyo feb 90

Well of course he's going to look more impressive knocking out fighters in short order than he would getting destroyed by Douglas. He also didn't look amazing beating Bruno or Smith or Tillis.

 

Go watch his 12 round fights... His power remained pretty constant as well even in fights he was tagged in. He actually didnt look that good against tubbs. Tubbs was outboxing him at times in that first round... Tyson was hittable even with the head movement. But the biggest thing missing from tyson against douglas that points to it being tyson being bad as opposed to douglas being phenomenel is he never had anywhere near the power in the douglas fight. I m willing to bet you cant find me any fight prior to bruno where he was throwing or landing less powerful than he did against buster.

Tyson rarely threw a punch outside the jab that wasnt a hard one. Or if he did it was to set up a hard one anyway. Both missing from the douglas fight. The thing is douglas was running initially but i m pretty sure he ends up pretty much just standing and trading. Hes probably the harder puncher in there.

And yet douglas definetely wasnt the harder puncher. Looking through every performance tyson ever gave...it was the least aggresive he ever was from the first bell. Even against lewis he had a go for a round. Against douglas there was just nothing there. I m taking every one of them guys on that list to beat the tyson that fought douglas.

Tyson looked like a novice. Go threw every attribute he had....i bet every one of them was lacking in the fight. From head movement. To combination punching. To power. To speed. To aggresion. To actually wanting to win. To speed of foot.

Douglas never actually done anything special just used the jab to set up his own punches. Every one of the challenges tried the same thing and failed badly. What was it that douglas done that was so special that the rest never. His jab was actually very good but so was a lot of the heavyweights back then that tyson faced.

 

He wasn't out on his feet by any means but the fact remains Tyson had no time to attempt to follow up which would have shown us exactly how he was faring. I think he was struggling a bit as he cut the count too fine for me. He could well have fended off Tyson if time remained regardless but the scenario didn't unfold.

Tyson was a great finisher but whether adrenaline could have overcome the punishment he had taken in previous rounds to mount a good offensive is an open question as is also Douglas' condition and ability to get out of trouble. I'd back him to survive as i don't Tyson was going to be able to mount his customary finish anyway. It's a guess tho.

 

Yes, I think to some degree it also happened to Lewis where he thought he could beat anyone in his sleep and that's why he go knocked out against Rachman. You could tell he wasnt prepared physically. Didnt throw much jab, slow reflexes and already breathing heavily after 2 rounds. Even before the KO punch, Rachman managed to land some big punches from distance. That was very unsual and we all know in any other night Lewis would beat Rachman.

Also, it was true that Douglas took a 13 count when he got knocked down in 8th. You can simply see it here

This content is protected

He was down at 2:57 and was still on his knees at 3:02.

 

Good post and i think you can add Tyson may have been abusing himself a bit more than Lewis too. He was going off the rails and i have an article somewhere that documented a lot of this questioned whether he could keep it up. There is also a good link somewhere in here to an article where top guys like Futch or Steward or the like mentioned his declining technique as a fighter when he was still winning from memory.

 

No. never in my dreams did I pick him to get beat by that caliber of contender. But in the weeks and months that followed the match, my recollection of his checkered past combined with the post fight reports began to add up and then it all made sense to me. His recent divorce to Robyn givens. The car wreck he had been in. The fight with Mitch Green at 3:00 AM in the morning which left his hand injured. The change in management. The inactivity over the previous year. Page decking him in sparring. The concerns surrounding his performance in the Bruno fight. The poor job his corner did in between rounds. The way he held his head down on his stool.. If you don't think this amounts to enough of an explanation why even the greatest of champions could be upset by an underdog then what will it take ? A severed limb perhaps ? You mentioned that if Tyson were truly that good he would have prevailed. Why? Had it been for different officiating Both Ali and Louis might have lost some of their fights to lesser men. A different referee might have called it a day after Shavers decked Holmes. How about Lennox getting sparked by McCall and Rahman? Are we to write these fighters off as not living up to their hype either? As for Douglas, yes he had been a ranked contender for the better part of four years prior to that evening and had beaten a few notables, though most were past prime or losing to everyone and their brother. In his last fight he showed up at 242 lbs to look lackluster against a 14 fight McCall and had defeats to lesser men at all stages of his career. So all of a sudden at nearly 30 years of age with almost ten years and 35 fights behind him he's supposed to be reincarnated? I think not. Sure he had some physical attributes and tools to give Mike problems but nothing unique to what several of Tyson's previous or future victims possessed. The most valuable asset Buster had was a poorly prepared Tyson in front of him.

 

Because you didn't follow his career as it was unfolding.

 

Yes, and off course later in his career he hardly care about the belt anymore . In Lewis case, its only lack of motivation at one point as he admitted himself.

There's an interview of Mike at his apartment from some years ago where he flipped the belt and said it was a garbage. The interviewer then said, Mike...you worked hard to achieve that. I think if you've been world champ at 20, undisputed champ at 22 and have everything you could possibly had at 24, its hard to maintain your motivation.

Mike personal life is just a mess. He was jailed for few years, and then he squandered $300 m to the point of $30 m debt and he was obviously on something (drugs) when he fought Savarese and Golota. Against Savarese he hardly fight as a boxer, it was more like a guy trying to beat somebody on a street.

Tyson basically lost all round against Botha, his performance in that fight was basically similar to his performance against Lewis , only that he managed to land his nuke.

 

You are all over it Goo.

 

Thanks friend.

 

Well, if Tyson hadn't spent most of the 8th round being battered around the ring before landing that punch, maybe he could have given himself a better chance. Problem was, Douglas was the boss in there.

It wa a good punch. The rest of the fight belongs to Douglas.

 

Every great fighter has had problems. In fact, every fighter has problems. Most ordinary people have life problems. Mike Tyson is not special in that way.
Buster Douglas had his own problems.
Many of the guys Tyson beat had well-documented problems too.

It's interesting you list all these things and then query if or why I don't think it's "enough of an explanation" ..... and yet, you completely failed to mention Buster Douglas.
You've totally closed your mind to the possibility that Buster Douglas (a living, breathing fighter with two gloved fists) is THE explanation of Mike Tyson's loss.

No, Ali and Louis didn't lose their championships in one-sided beatdowns in their absolute primes.
Louis had some bad days at the office and he prevailed. That's a difference.

..... and if he had, how would that be comparable to Tyson's loss to Douglas ? Are you suggesting Tyson could have been allowed to continue in round 10 ?
Tyson was thoroughly beaten. Holmes was just decked.

Holmes's "Buster Douglas" was actually probably Mike Weaver. An underdog who turned out to be much better than anticipated, with Holmes perhaps not 100% fit. And Holmes dug deep and prevailed.

Lennox Lewis never received the same level of hype as Tyson enjoyed.
I totally mark Lennox Lewis down for those losses. I don't make excuses. I don't rate Lewis as high as I'd rate Al, Louis or Holmes.

Douglas did fine against Oliver McCall. Douglas wasn't an exciting fighter.

Douglas wasn't reincarnated but he boxed well, took the initiative, and used his immense physical advantages against a short guy with stumpy arms. It's not rocket science, nor is it a mystery of the universe.
He didn't give Tyson the space or angles to launch those trademark attacks. He just went out there and bossed him.
For all Tyson's greatness, being short with short arms was always going to be a potential weakness, as was having to rely on a single high-intensity style or mode of fighting.

 

If the Tyson-Douglas fight wasn't so one-sided maybe all these excuses would have some relevance. Maybe we could say it tipped the balance. If he had an off-night and lost a close fight by a fair decision, for example, maybe him being less than 100% would have some relevance.

 

Excuses everywhere, I see the Bruno fight getting mentioned as evidence of Tyson's downfall yet the Carl Williams fight is conveniently overlooked. Why is there no mention of the illness Douglas was recovering from? An illness that had him on medication, this would have certainly had a negative affect on his performance, more than having sex with a Japanese girl don't you think? I think it's time people better start believing that Tyson was demolished fair and square with no excuses.

 

Let's see how often these same people making excuses for Tyson's loss to Douglas will show the same courtesy to all the fighters Tyson beat who were allegedly "ill-prepared".

Pinklon Thomas, Tyrell Biggs, Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker, Michael Spinks, Frank Bruno.
etc.

It's all there : drugs, alcohol, divorce, injury, management problems, trainers walking out, inactivity, family feuds, family tragedy.

Is that why they lost to Mike Tyson ?
Or was Tyson the reason ?