Haglar vs Ray Robinson

Just shut up, you have no knowledge and you know it. Since when had LaMotta no skills? He had good head movements and in general an underrated defense, amazing pace, iron chin, great stamina, etc., a guy with zero skills couldn´t beat one of the greatest fighters ever, whether if he weighs 16 lbs or what more...

 

But he was still beaten by them in the first place, which backs up my assertion that Hagler has trouble with fighters with fast hands

I would emphatically disagree with this. The reason Leonard won the decision was because he was able to fire off quick counters off the ropes and then get out of range

 

All of hagler's losses were controversial and he lost by like 1 or 2 points at max. Ray Robinson has been clearly defeated during his middleweight career about 3-4 times i believe. The funny thing is that hagler was green as **** during his first two losses anyways.

 

What was controversial about the first Monroe fight?

 

have u seen the fight? It was considered a philly decision and thats why hagler immediately wanted a rematch.

 

Ha ha, where have you read this shite, on a Marvin Hagler forum? Boxing News was the only major publication to cover it and they gave Monroe eight rounds. The headline: "New Look Monroe Hammers Hagler".

 

Marvin Hagler UD12 Sugar Ray Robinson

 

He wanted a rematch because he lost- clearly. Just like Seales wanted a rematch when Hagler thrashed him...same with Hamsho...Obel.

 

Luigi, you beat me to the punch taking Amsterdam out,,,,Jake was one of my favorites and highly skilled. He knew how to get inside smoothly and could tripple up his hook when needed. For a short man he knew distance well and it let him out jab bigger men, Robby included at times. One of he top jaws of all time, tough as nails, good punch, decent speed, could throw every punch to the head or body.

 

It is too simplistic an assertion that states "Hagler couldn't handle speedy fighters." Do you believe that Roy Jones "can't handle big punchers?" Who doesn't have trouble with fighters with fast hands??

Leonard did not win simply because he had faster counters. That is an woefully incomplete analysis. It is simplistic.

-Leonard's mobility factored in.
-Leonard's angles factored in.
-Leonard's tying Hagler up inside and spinning off factored in.
-The size of the ring factored in.
-The number of rounds negotiated factored in.
-Dundee's cheerleading performance factored in.
-Hagler's age factored in.
-Hagler's coming out right-handed -thereby allowing Leonard to get -comfortable- factored in.
-Hagler's "Micky the Dunce" strategy factored in.

 

Yes, because Hagler was at his peak also and Robinson fights like Leonard!:rofl

Now, La Motta is basically unskilled in comparison to an elite fighter in Hagler's time, but even if we do not agree on that, we will agree that Hagler is much more advanced a fighter in every way to Jake La Motta.

So, being that everyone knows LaMotta troubled Sugar Ray Robinson and that he's probably 5 steps down from Hagler even if we're pretending that all era's are equal, what does that say about this bout?

LaMotta was able to have some success at pressuring Ray and utilising his terrible jab in the same process, let's take a bigger guy with a tremendous jab and timing, quicker, better at pressure and most likely more durable.

What's going to happen?

Hagler victory, wipe out. The ironic part is you will probably pick Greb over Ray, but not Hagler, yet you've never even seen a full fight of Greb, save for that abysmal 'sparring' demonstration that was an absolute joke looking back in hindsight.

 

I can't fathom the Lamotta unskilled in comparison to a fighter in Haglers time and the Lamotta is 5 steps down from Hagler. Lamotta is infinitely better than you think. His era wasn't that long ago and unskilled.

 

If you don't agree then that is fair.

Basic point -

Is Hagler BETTER all around than LaMotta and did LaMotta not give Ray Robinson trouble?

Should be an easy pick even if you rate era's differently than I do.

 

Leonard was similar to Robinson in style, so the comparison is decent enough. Both were past their best at that point, but the fight does give some stylistic indications of how Robinson/Hagler would have gone in their primes.

That being said, Hagler would win this one.

 

a simple question...

Who would you say is a better (pressure /) fighter Vito Auntofermo or Jake Lamotta?