I wasn't implying that. Just pointing out that being tough is not mutually exclusive of harboring sympathetic emotions. There's two sides to every coin, if you will. One cannot exist without the other.
Hey Buddy, don't forget Willie The Worm. It was at Monroe's hands that Hagler suffered his only decisive loss, and at Monroe's expense that Marv finally made his name in Philly with a virtual two round decapitation. (Is Willie still performing as a referee?) Caveman Lee got clubbed in one, but everybody else who he fought with the MW Title on the line was a rock. Excellent middleweights like Curtis Parker, Dwight Davison, Frank Fletcher, James Green, John Collins, Doug DeWitt, Mark Holmes (Larry's kid brother finished with a superb 38-1 record), Alex Ramos, Bobby Czyz, and numerous others couldn't even earn shots at Hagler through the absurdly rugged gauntlet of divisional contenders during Marv's reign. The combined records of Hagler's championship opponents (including the records of the three combatants Marv rematched for the title with at the time of their first meetings) was 445W+23L+6D. Over the course of his career, Marv dropped eight adversaries from the unbeaten ranks. He was never punched to the deck. Like Larry Holmes, he mentored a kid sibling to a successful middleweight career. An extremely valid argument can be made that Hagler's career record should stand at 66W(52 KO)+1UDL+0D. The argument could also be made that he was virtually invincible over the 15 round distance. It is my understanding that he was never even knocked down by a punch to the head while sparring! A huge part of the reason I no longer follow boxing has to do with the fact that SRL was handed Hagler's title after only 12 rounds, instead of the true championship distance. He earned his 15 round stripes against Duran, and never took a backwards step in blasting out Hearns as Tommy had done to Cuevas and Duran. He was considered by many to be the world's best MW through the last ten years and 30 fights of his career. (If Hagler had gotten Briscoe's shot against Valdez for Monzon's vacated title, he might have shattered Joe Louis's all-time records for number of successful championship defenses and length of reign.) Fully Obel moved up to the light heavyweight division, rather than try challenging Hagler a third time for his middleweight belts. At the end, Marv slowed down a bit, but if Hearns and Mugabi couldn't beat him down (as Douglas beat down Tyson), then nobody would have been able to do it for a long time to come. Yeah. Hagler - Baddest Mofo of our era.
Hagler trumps Tyson every time. Hagler was legitimately tough, both physically and mentally. Nothing derailed him, nothing swayed him from what he was clearly born to do. Tyson was just a street thug with power and fast hands. Show him a chink in his armor, and..........well, we see where he is now.
People were terrified against Tyson. From 86-90 everybody thought he was invincible. This isn't "Who's the best and toughest fighter" it's who is the baddest mofo. Hagler wasn't always fearsome and people weren't as scared of him as they were with Tyson. Theres a reason he was called baddest man on the planet.
..............Meh. People were afraid of him because he was a bully with a lot of muscles and a bad attitude. Doesn't make you a "bad mofo." A bad mofo is a legitimate tough guy, and Tyson wasn't legitimately tough. Just because people are afraid of you doesn't make you what they think of you.
Tyson was as rough and tough as they come. The way he acted, the way he looked, and the way he destroyed fighter after fighter for years definently made him a bad mofo. Tyson was legitimately tough, Buster Douglas WHUPPED him for 8 rounds and with Tysons eye completely swelled up he rallies to drop Douglas. He took his beating as good as anyone could of. Ruddock also hit him with monster punches and he walked through them like nothing.
.............Perhaps we should chalk this up to different definitions of "bad mofo." I define it as a fighter with equal parts toughness in physical, emotional, and mental arenas. You seem to define it as some snarling guy who scroes a bunch of knockouts. I'll just ask this; can you picture Hagler caving and biting the ear off an opponent? That was a huge sign of weakness.
That was Tyson after he went to jail and was way more mentally unstable than the 80s Tyson. Tyson after jail was considerably more crazy and unstable than the 80s one who was a bad mofo. A bad mofo is a tough, rough guy who is going to try to take your head off and not going to get derailed. Being a bit of a thug also plays a part.
Don King : Conan! What is best in life? Iron Mike : To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women. Don King : That is good! That is good.
............Being a thug is also a sign of weakness, but I guess we'll never come to a concensus, as we see the most basic ideas in completely opposite ways.
I will take roberto duran as the baddest of our era.... A 5ft 7 inch guy with a 67 inch reach fighting and competing with hagler,hearns,barkley,leonard and others at divisions much higher than his natural weight and kicking ass and hanging tough with them....Can you imagine any lightweight champ in history beating leonard,going 15 close rounds with marv at MIDDLE,and beating a huge MIDDLE/LT HEAVY for a middle title in barkley? Also not forgetting whipping davey moore and cuevas at lt middle,and palmino at welter..... Just look at his fight with barkley and see the size disparity,basically a welter in with a lt heavy,and see roberto brawl with barkley and take barkleys head and body shots while dishing out tremendous punches himself....Duran at his best was probably the most intense and savage fighter i have ever seen..... I loved his reply when he was asked about how he would fare in a street fight with ali or foreman....? Reply; 'I kick the **** out of him'.... :rasta
I like Hagler as a person and fighter, he was a top middle of our times but when he got in there with a skilled and experienced fighter, he too had his differculties(an Older Duran blown up from 135lbs took him to school) Vito(less skilled) met him heart to heart and won in there Draw and Ray Leonard and Dundee outsmarted him in there fight but in fights that he just went out and fought hard like the smooth 2 fisted southpaw that he was(Hearns,Mugabi,Hamsho,Minter,Sibson,Fugy,Roldan) he was brilliant and stood out as the best
