Hagler should of been 65-1-1

Opinions are like everybody's behinds, everyone has one.

 

Thanks buddy. Too many posters let their feelings for a fighter cloud their judgement.

 

Leonard-Hagler was close and could have gone either way. Two of the judges’ scorecards reflected exactly that.

One judge turned in a horrible card but had he scored it 115-113 to Leonard rather than 118-110, would Hagler fans have accepted it? I doubt it.

 

Many of Hagler's fans are upset that he did not break Carlos Monzon's record of successful title defenses which was 14.

 

No, Leonard beat him.

I looked it up to make sure.

 

It still goes in the record book as a loss, Leonard won. No opinions here or anywhere are going to change the fact that Sugar Ray Leonard won the middleweight title on April 6 1987.

 

Sarcasm won't win you any points.
I saw and scored the fight myself. Hagler won. He got a draw in the worst case scenario.

 

So because you scored it for Hagler your opinion is final ? Many knowledgable boxing fans on here scored it close for either fighter or a draw.

Hagler lost 4 out of the first 6 rounds possibly 5 on some scorecards, a win for Leonard isn't outrageous.....

 

I think Leonard clearly won 5 of the first 6. Then Hagler realised he had to forget the notion he was a better boxer than Ray. Even then I still gave Ray a couple of the later rounds for a close win. Also, if you want any other indicator that Marvin lost, Marvin doesn't dance!

 

Hagler fans ***** and moan about him not (for once in his championship career) getting all the conditions that might favor him.

Like it being 12 rounds rather than 15 — even though Marvin hadn’t fought a scheduled 15 in 2 1/2 years and at his age probably didn’t want it to be 15.

Like the ring being on the larger end of the allowable spectrum — but Marvin’s goal was to outbox Ray Leonard, so maybe he wanted a big ring since that favors the boxer.

And something about gloves, but middleweight fights have always been the teetering points between 8 ounces and 10s … and sometimes they’re fought in eights and sometimes tens.

But if Marvin needed to have things stacked his way and apparently had gotten all of those conditions in his previous title fights … doesn’t that reflect poorly on him in all his previous title fights? Was he some kind of Goldilocks who had to have things just right — exactly the way HE wanted them — to win? Seems like that reflects poorly on his reign.

 

For me though, it does matter a bit that Marv set the record for UNDISPUTED Title defenses. (Yeah, yeah, we know Monzon was probably the world's best MW at all times after Benvenuti I, but three of his defenses were for the WBA MW Title only, giving him ten undisputed title defenses if you consider Monzon-Valdes I to be a WBC Title challenge for Carlos in reunifying the MW crown. MMH defended the undisputed MW title 11 times Scypion reportedly was NOT a defense of the WBC or WBA titles for Hagler).

If you strictly accept the undisputed metric, then Hagler broke Monzon's divisional record by one, and still retains it. (Hopkins was undisputed for six MW title defenses. SRL-Hagler was NOT for the undisputed championship.)

A case can be made that MMH's record should be 66-1-0, which is what he always believed. (Even his mother Ida Mae, sitting at ringside at the Philly Spectrum for Monroe-Hagler I turned over to a relative [Robbie Sims?] after that bout and said, "You know, Marvin lost.")

 

Cry, from Johnny Ray and The Four Lads (1951) fits this thread just fine. Time to break out the violins. Ha Ha Ha.

 

Still at 14. Can't convince me that Hagler was better than King Carlos Monzon. A bald head does not mean a thing to me, if things did not pan out for Hagler he manipulated the fans and media into feeling sorry for him. Monzon always won the big fights that he had to win, Hagler choked and cried about it when he failed to win the Big Fights. Your theory still does not justify the amount of title defenses for Monzon having less. None of us are judges to have any impact on Hagler's record, the official judges votes are what matter. If he was so great, how come he did not kayo a fighter that had been away for 3 and a half years with no tune up fight. Hagler's mother is not a licensed boxing judge in Philadelphia since we are trying to use technicalities to make the case for Hagler to be better than Monzon. Many did not care for Monzon because he refused to learn the English language, he did not partake in the childlike theatrics of sitting at ringside to intimidate his future opponents. To Carlos, boxing and being champion was a job. Hagler struggled with a smaller Duran, Monzon destroyed World Welterweight Champion Jose Mantequilla Napoles in 7 rounds. Monzon was still a champion, politics removed the WBC recognition from Monzon. So Muhammad Ali did not have 9 title defenses in his first title reign from 1964-1967, he only had one because Ernie Terrell was recognized as WBA champion from March 5 1965 until Feb 6 1967. The March 22 1967 title defense against challenger Zora Folley was his only title defense. A champion is a champion.

 

It's only outrageous in the eyes of a fan of the fighter and not the sport.
Those of us who saw the fight live knew it was close. Hagler in one of the dumbest moves in the history of boxing, ( Thus my opinion he could be taken out of his game ) Came out passive, like he wanted to prove to Leonard he could beat him anyway he chooses.
Anyone who knows anything about boxing is, if you have a fighter that's been semi retired for almost five yrs. You make him work. You push the attack, don't allow them confidence, Don't allow the crowd to get behind the underdog, thus re-energize them. Hagler came out with no urgency, like in his mind he could win whenever he chooses by Ko.
I'm a Leonard fan, but when I saw Hagler didn't go at Leonard, the way he went at Hearns, I realized at that instant Leonard had a chance.
I realized by the 6th and 7th rd Leonard would more than likely win the fight if he held on.
By the 12th rd I knew Leonard won. Though the fight itself was close Leonard had pulled the crowd.
Hagler and his team had no one to blame but themselves for the result of the fight.

 

No, Hagler is not the best middleweight in history, Greb, Monzon, Robinson, etc were all better.

He never wanted a rematch with Duran and a rematch with Leonard would have basically been no different. He only gave rematches to people he knew he could beat like Hamsho.