Hagler/SRL

How was alkmaar?

 

Arthur Mercante Sr's system for judging a bout was to divide it into thirds, as a safeguard against the sort of round stealing final second flurries that boxers like Ali made a science of mastering. He would then proceed from that premise.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I felt the key to the scoring wasn't always with the flurries, but the control of the ring and tempo of the bout which Ray exhibited. In short, where Hearns fought Hagler's fight, Marv fought to Ray's liking, ceding the generalship to SRL. Hagler gave too much thought to his opponent, and not enough to himself. To win, it's best to force your opponent to accommodate YOU, not try to accommodate him. Marv should have ignored Ray's showboating, not succumb to it as he did, an act tantamount to psychic surrender.

Marv was the champion. Why did he meet SRL's terms, for a 12 round match, larger ring and ten ounce gloves? Hagler didn't need the money, and he had achieved a high measure of public recognition after disposing of Hearns. Legacy wise, boxing SRL was a no-win situation for him. If he bombed Ray out impressively, it would have been nothing surprising after SRL's showing against Howard. If Marv was awarded the decision, it would have diluted his reputation, as happened when he boxed Duran. Of course the outcome which transpired was the worst case scenario, one not generally thought to be terribly realistic before the fact.

 

You've turned an entirely new leaf haven't you, regarding SRL! I'd call the Howard KD more a flash one than anything. LaLonde and Hearns were big hitters at big weights and TBH Leonard was a boy fighting men in this regard. Leonard was a very genuine and natural Welterweight whose great assets allowed him some notable fights up higher. As for Norris, father time had caught up well and truly with Leonard and he got a real pizzling. He was lucky to survive.

Regarding the comeback, his timing was indeed superb considering the layoff. He was as good as a guy could possibly have been given no warmups, a shocking performance really. I said to the mates don't be surprised if Leonard has some sort of chance here because he's not exactly silly and if he took this sort of fight he MUST believe he has a chance. Mind you me saying it and actually seeing it transpire still shocked the **** out of me. I kept waiting for reality to set in, but it didn't even tho there were a few spots along the way one started to think the show might be fading.

 

You're on fire mate. Tho we've done this thing in here 1000 times you've not been here and have more than made it a worthwhile regurgitation of something that was usually the same old **** and ground. It's also run better without the usual RED influence, tho admittedly without the usual comedic element

Wonder where the mad trooper is, it's been a while.

 

I scored it a draw! My main disappointment came more from hagler than the decision. his hooks were wide and slow, he was off target, and he did not come on strong untill late...and even then SRL ring size specs Made it diffucult for hagler to close it off. I don't see either guy doing enough to validate this as a robbery...my heart wants hagler but my card say DRAW!

 

Didn't get a ticket in the end mate. Only two of my mates did (they're shareholders), so me and four others just bummed around Amsterdam for the day. Watched it in a bar with loads of other ticketless fans. Good stuff. The Shrooms were harsh mind. :good

 

I think the fight was so big that it raised Hagler's profile even more. I guess Hagler wanted to retire on a bigger, more famous victory than even the Hearns one. Of course, it's always about money to a large extent.

I agree with what you are saying though, Hagler had little to gain in actual terms of boxing accomplishments by taking on a one-crap-fight-in-five-years-with-detached-retina blown-up has-been welterweight, ie. SRL.

I believe a major factor was Hagler's PERSONAL MOTIVATION. He really wanted to hurt SRL, make SRL look and FEEL inferior in the ring. Hagler was a bitter grudging sort of guy, and Leonard (who goaded resentment) personified the boxing "star system" that Hagler had to battle bitterly hard to gain entry to. There was history between them going back to 1976, at least in Hagler's mind.
Hagler simply wanted to beat this guy, not so that WE could give him the credit (or find good reasons not to), but for his own satisfaction. SRL was just someone who was long overdue a beating.

 

I feel that Marv was at his best when he was either methodically destructive or desperate. He did have a sense of desperation against Minter, after the draw with Vito, and the cut he sustained in the Hearns bout, which caused the action to be stopped momentarily, again fueled him with immediate urgency. With SRL, he was neither desperate or methodically destructive, and he knew better than to leave the outcome in the hands of the judges, yet allowed it to happen anyways.

I wonder if Ray himself was actually surprised at Marv's lackluster and relatively nerveless showing. He brilliantly observed Hagler's lessening speed and reflexes in the war of attrition with Mugabe, but did he truly anticipate Marv's lack of aggression in their matchup?

 

There's no way Leonard could have predicted such lack of intensity and pressure from Hagler at the start. Even he would not have known just how deeply the significance and magnitude of the occasion had affected Hagler and his team. Marin's decision to try to box Leonard in the early rounds is probably the biggest tactical blunder i have ever seen in a superfight by a great. Why did he do it? He says because Leonard would not have expected it, he would have expected a very aggressive start. This was so wrong on so many levels.

I wonder if an earlier post was correct - Marvin was cocky and thought he could win the fight at anytime he basically chose. Given the odds, expectations and conditions one could forgive him for thinking it. The Howard fight, the layoff, the sizes etc. Marvin laffed his arse off when Howard dumped Leonard. What throws me off tho is Marvin's admittance that he came out boxing orthodox as Leonard wouldn't expect it. What is a man with so many advantages doing worrying about what the other guy is going to do? Leonard sure got to him.

 

I can only guess that Hagler wanted to beat Leonard at his own game, by boxing orthodox.

Hagler fought his worst fight, not just tactically, but everything, his intensity and timing was just not right. Maybe SRL fought so well to make Hagler look so bad.

There's no doubt that Hagler felt he had a lot of reasons to beat SRL, but I reckon he thought it would be the easiest fight he'd had for a while.
Then again, all fighters have off-days, even great fighters in significant legacy fights. There's a winner and a loser in most fights, and Hagler arguably deserved to be judged the winner here anyway.

 

Yeah, Leonard fought "so well" and Hagler "his worst ever" but Marv won. Hey, i'm convinced. Anyone else?

 

Not moi

 

That's YOUR interpretation of what I wrote.
I said MAYBE Leonard fought so well as to make Hagler look bad.
That's a compliment to SRL.

Hagler ARGUABLY won the fight, that's why people argue about it, and the vast majority of reasonable people accept it was VERY CLOSE.

You and JohnThomas must be missing Redrooster, trying to read his nonsense into my post. Muppets.