Hagler/SRL

We are missing Red...and you're doing quite a poor imitation of him.

 

Yes, because everything I wrote was rougly correct and reasonable.

Even you know I'm right. But or some reason you just cant help being an imbecile.
All you did was pick out a few sentences, drop a couple of key words to twist the meaning slightly and make a smartass comment.

You have JohnThomas fawning over your every word as usual, fair enough. I'll let you get on with it.

It's a shame because both of you have some decent stuff to say, and I enjoy most of your posts but there's no excuse for deliberate mis-readings. Just a sad attempt to sour a good discussion.

 

This is where the Petronellis really dropped the ball. A good cornerman keeps his charge grounded in the facts, but Goody and Pat were inappropriately calm and quite, while Dundee kept SRL charged up. Angelo was perfectly capable of calm serenity when the situation warranted that behaviour, as he so aptly demonstrated when working for Foreman, but Dundee did usually understand which mode of conduct was correct, depending on the circumstances. The Petronellis blew it in what may be the most important contest they will ever be involved with.

I'm sure he figured his right jab would wobble Ray like the best punches of Fireball Rodriguez and Duran did. But it was very foolish of Marv to not immediately charge out and test SRL's ability to take a shot, particularly with fists encased in ten ounce gloves.

Spotting Ray a scorecard lead was never a good idea, and there were instances in his career where he was nailed and stunned early. In addition to Fireball and El Cholo, Bruce Finch also had him dazed early (by SRL's own admission). Benitez had some good middle rounds, but coming from behind to overtake Ray on points was an exercise in futility, especially in a 12 round affair.

JT, listing the greatest tactical blunders in noteworthy bouts might make for an interesting thread topic, but I completely agree it would be difficult to top the opening rounds of Leonard/Hagler.

 

Not really. The overall tone gave the impression that Hagler barely gave a ****. The truth being that he was fighting boxing's then biggest name, not just some 'has been with a detached retina'. It's just that you seem to have fallen into the great "it should have been 15 not 12...ring was too small...gloves too...Hagler was way past it...Marv fought his worst fight...oh, he won anyway" brigade that plagues forums like a baldy army.

We share a sense of humour, that's all. We probably get on because we're perhaps two of the few objective posters on here (Chris Pontius, Stone Hands, McGrain, Duodenum, Magoo, one or two others). Actually we're the same person. :good

You usually post good stuff yourself. Again, the Hagler-Leonard discussions are often spolit when posters act like Hagler was the more talented fighter. He wasn't. And it largely revoves around Leonard picking the right time to fight him. Yeah, so what? Marv possibly would have been too much in 1982, but he wasn't calling Spinks out was he?

 

Sorry if i enjoy a little side humour (Top shelf humour too, many times, but UK humour can sometimes go over the head for some. It's been big in Australia since before i can remember tho) alongside the seriousness Sonny.

Speaking of Pommie humour, Hale & Pace always cracked me up no end.

 

Totally agree, but i'll add Hagler has to shoulder some blame too. A great fighter should be able to make in fight assessments and adjustments. Maybe he misread and thought he was going to win this fight at some stage of the 12 rounds, but he was dead wrong. An Ali sometimes went against even Dundee when he decided he had a better tactical option. You're right in describing Dundee's great cornerwork and the difference between the two camps. Simply put - one was with the program, one wasn't, and same with the two boxers.

Yes, i too think Hagler thought he could get by Leonard quite easily. No doubt he thought his strength and size would have him own the latter rounds, trouble was by boxing he gave Leonard so many advantages and gifts. He allowed Leonard to find his real fight timing with next to no pressure at all. He also allowed him to conserve energy, critical considering he hadn't had a fight in so many years and if anything may have been suspect endurance wise. He also gave away the early lead and trend of course, and therefore allowed Leonard to take less risks later while still staying in or on top of the fight.

There is a flip side tho. Maybe, just maybe, Hagler might have tired just as badly if he forced the pace early. He too was a very tired arm weary man at crucial late stages.

Agreed. A Monzon or Hopkins would have imposed their style, will and size on SRL right away. I'm pretty sure post fight Monzon said something akin to you have to show the smaller man moving up who is the boss and bully him a bit.

 

Thanks mate, and i agree. Leonard turned up with a superb strategy and direction, Hagler no. Their was a big difference in their corners too. Dundee was brilliant under pressure and faced it many times. I could go much deeper but we've had it here quite a few times.

 

Ahhhhh i can see him now! I'll bet my left one that he is either writing up a storm in either this thread or the LaMotta vs SRL one

:yep

 

happy days