Yes, it was the golden era of British boxing, because there was so much talent around. When I refur to the dark days of boxing I believe the boxers around then and involved with Duff & co were exploited . Ask any of the boxers around at that time if they have a good word to say about the shall we say the boxing mafia . As for Micky being a Freind of Sam and not Doug Bidwell,do me a favor, Micky would do a Deal with the devil if there was money to be made. As for Micky and Sam not being responsible for Kevin going back to Boston so soon. If Micky was so concerned about Kevin in the first fight with Hagler, Why did he not show his concern that Kevin was taking the return to soon,no he encouraged it. He new what was going to happen. The truth is I beleive Minter in there eyes was the new golden boy, he had beaten Finnegan 3 times, Minter was the future where money was to be made, Kevin had had his time. As for Sam he was not the sharpshooter as he was in the 50s & 60s he was getting old , He was a multi millionaire who was the managing director of William Hill, I don't think he worried to much about getting the 20 per cent of Kevin's future fights. I think you no as well as me that Micky and co were to powerful to in those days. If any boxers manager would cause a problem they would be frozen out of the Albert hall & Wembley etc. they had a complete strangle hold on boxing. The dark days of British boxing.
Its well documented that Duff and Bidwell did not get on , whereas Burns and Duff went back a long way. Most promoters will deal with anyone ,they are in business, Arum will deal with King, and vice versa it has nothing to do with anything but business. Do you think Maurice Hope, Charlie Magri , Jim Watt , John H Stracey, or Frank Bruno would have been World Champions without the backing of Duff, Lawless and Astaire? Honeyghan was perceived as a European level fighter. Kirkland Laing could have achieved a lot more if he had a brain cell in his head. MInter was not associated with the cartel yet he fought all his major UK fights for them. Why? Because they had the arenas and offered the most £££££ The AASC, Conference Centre, RAH, Wembley Arena. John Conteh went steadily down after he left Duff. I think you will find that Watt, Mckenzie, Edwards,Schwer would all give positive comments about the trio that were involved in moving them towards titles. I'm not suggesting that they did this for altruistic motives, they did it because it was profitable for themselves , but in doing so they made it profitable for their fighters as well. John Mugabi netted $350,000 for challenging Hagler thats after tax, and all expenses! .Six weeks after the fight he was skint! Contrast what Bruno received for his fight with Witherspoon ,with what Terrible Tim got from King ,and Witherspoon was the champion!
Quite right about them 4 but apart from watt the other fighters you mention we're handled by Duff at a later stage where he could not take libertys as they would have gone elsewhere , Duff and co had by then lost there stranglehold on boxing . The reason why the boxers that you mention would not have won world titles if it hadn't been for Duff is because there was no one else to go to, Micky made sure of that. That's why he tried to put a stop to Frank ******, he didn't want any competition.
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm having a go at Micky but I'm just saying what the majority of the fighters feelings are who we're controlled by them in that era. Tony Sibson is a good Freind of mine. I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end. But due to Mickys bad health I will hold back on certain events that took place.
That's the nature of the game, Levene ,with Duff as his match maker battled with Solomons for supremacy till Solomons aged and took a back seat , confining himself to occasional shows at his sporting club. Duff got old and ****** was the new kid on the block, now we have Hatton and Maloney its a cycle. Eddie Thomas always complained that Duff wasn't interested in putting on fighters that he did not have an interest in, but how many seats would they have sold? Duff/Lawless made Edwards and Magri into champs. Magri was exciting but fairly moderate. Edwards couldnt sell tickets to his own relatives. Watt was contemplating retirement. The cartel made champs by careful matchmaking, and having their boxers in the right place at the right time ,Stracey was lucky to get Napoles when he was over the hill, if he had fought the Mantequilla that Ralph Charles faced, he would have been demolished. Watt beat a decent fighter for the title as did Magri but they did not beat anyone great. Bruno was the greatest rehabilitation job ever achieved. No one is saying Duff is asaint , he is a very shrewd businessman and an extremely astute judge of a boxer, imo. Would any of his boxers have done better with some one else? Take the cartel out of the equation ,and how many world champs would we have had during those" Dark Days" ?
Good point on the Bruno-Witherspoon purses. Just an interesting story about Duff. I conversed with john h stracey a few weeks back and he told me just before Duff and Lawless made the Palomino fight, he wanted a break as he had 2 world title fights in 3 months. Duff threatened to sue him if he didnt fight and Lawless wasnt too vocal in taking Straceys side,so he capitulated and fought. When i asked him about a claim made (on this forum) about Palomino being a 3rd choice opponent after Armando Muniz and Clyde Gray (i think thats who it was but im not 100%) were deemed too dangerous and that Duff had an interest/options on Palomino, his reply was very interesting. He said God knows what those 2 where up to because we werent even talking by that stage
Probably the same as without the cartel there would have been many more promotors and matchmakers around who were shrewd businessmen, and ascute judges of boxers who live boxing 24 hours a day and work 20 hour days. The only difference would be the boxers of the 70s would have been a lot richer. After our conversation I have come to the conclusion that you are well read, and have a high intelligence, there for I will ask you a question. If your answer is YES I don't think you are being totally honest with yourself. Question Presume you are a boxer of the 1970s and the cartel are looking after your affairs and your money. Would you sleep well at night. Somehow I think not. I have no more questions your horner, I rest my case.
Duff got Stracey good money for a title defence at home against Hedgemon Lewis, who had won 2 of his last 6 fights and would not fight again after being defeated by Stracey. Lewis was 30 ,Stracey 25. Palomino was seen as a safe defence he had drawn with Lewis a few moths earlier, and beaten no one of note. Stracey got a break when he teamed up with Lawless, and co without them he would probably not gone past European level titles,[and purses]. I believe Stracey made allegations in newspapers that he had been exploited by the cartel ,allegations that he retracted.
If I was a UK boxer during those years, I would prefer to be with the Cartel than not. They had the exclusive rights for boxing to the Conference Centre,RAH, Wembley Arena, and the NAASC,and more importantly they had the TV via BBC. As an American president once said,[ I think it was about Hoover,] "Id sooner have him inside the tent pissing out ,than outside pissing in". Paraphrase that into, I'd sooner be with the big guns than have them firing at me. Stracey,Edwards,Honeyghan, Magri,et al all made good money with the cartel. Sibson was manged by Carl Gunns, I believe.Finnegan by Burns, Minter by Bidwell, what £££ they ended up with is between them and their pilots. When it comes to £$£$£$ Trust only the man you see in the mirror when you shave.! ps Thanks for the compliments , most on here see me as a senile old man. I look forward to further imput on here from you.:good
No, you are far from that, your knowledge on boxing history eg names, places dates is excellent, top draw. Best Regards. fhgatlhm FREDDIE HILLS GYM AND THE LAVENDER HILL MOB.
I sent you a message asking if we might know each other. Freddie trained my dad before he parted ways with Bobbie Neill and went to the Lavender Hill gym. Freddies brother Peter took over my dad's training.
