Hagler v Leonard 1982

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JudgeDredd, Sep 16, 2009.


  1. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Actually what really happened was Leonard always alluded to a Hagler bout, retired due to his eye injury, came back against Kevin Howard instead of Hagler in 84, saw how old and slow fighting once a year for 3 years Hagler was especially against Mugagi who was landing power overhand rights on Marv's dome, invited Hagler to the opening of his restaurant to gauge where he was at and Hagler admitting he was about to retire, and then challenged Hagler at that stage. So sorry for the truth
     
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  2. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Leonard was so shot when he fought Hagler that AFTER that fight he managed a draw against still formidable Tommy- although I thought Tommy edged it, and "won" 2 titles in one night against far bigger Lalonde whom he knocked out. Leonard was certainly past his best but he obviously had far more in his tank left than Hagler. But why should we let truth get in the way of what we want to believe?
     
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How do we know Hagler wouldn't have stopped the Hearns that SRL struggled with and in reality lost to? Do we think Lalonde would have beaten Hagler? Do we think he would have put Hagler on the floor the way he did SRL?

    Hagler didn't fight on so we have absolutely no idea how he would have fared. It would take one brave man to pick Hearns and Lalonde over him.
     
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  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah, it's a crackpot theory through and through.

    "But, but, but... Leonard had that press conference where everyone thought he'd call Hagler out." Jeez.
     
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The fact is that Leonard retired and came back many times. As fighters do, since it's hard to keep away from the spotlight. Or was he waiting Camacho out too?
     
  6. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    John you are completely correct in the fact that we don't know because Hagler didn't fight on. But that doesn't change the fact Leonard chose to fight him when he did because he knew Hagler was done physically- Hagler's footspeed and reflexes were long gone. And mentally as well as Hagler personally told Leonard he was done with the sport and was getting ready to retire. And after that, that's when Leonard chose to challenge him. Never before.
     
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  7. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I highly doubt he was waiting Camacho out as there is no indication of it. But his behavior indicates he was waiting Hagler out.
     
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  8. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Or maybe, though perhaps it's a distant possibility...Ray really did miss the spotlight (in a fit of coke-induced mania, he looks up at the heavens and cries "I want Hagler!"). Plus, if he really was doing a bunch of coke he needed a bunch of moolah.

    Just playing devil's advocate. I personally think he pulled a Michael Spinks and saw one of the obviously ATG middleweights in decline.
     
  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, not to a rational mind.
     
  10. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But, believing Ray Leonard, just randomly, out of the blue, decided he wanted to fight Hagler (and no one else, but Hagler), after 'one fight in five years and having had eye surgery' *yada yada yada *yawn, is rational? :thinking:
     
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very much so, yes. I can't believe I even have to say it really.
     
  12. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Given the evidence, I wouldn't call it 'irrational' to consider that Leonard had harbored a desire to match Hagler some years before 1986 and was opportunist enough to then seize the right moment to do so, i.e. at a time when a clearly deteriorated Hagler was about to retire.

    Of course, that Leonard himself was getting older, as Hagler grew older, is a perfectly rational point to make, as well. But, again, it is also quite reasonable to suggest that, even when taking the possibility of Leonard having lost something, due to inactivity, he reckoned on Hagler's decline having occurred quite rapidly, over the preceding few years; that this was perhaps enough to level the playing field. He is quoted as having said more or less the same himself.

    I think to simply take a position, that a point of view on Leonard, which differs to yours must be irrational, smacks of a denial of evidence and, in itself, is quite far from being rational in any type of dialogue.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There is absolutely no "evidence" that Leonard retired twice with a long term view to waiting Hagler out, preparing by doing coke and partying in the process. That's just fantasy. Your guy lost. Deal with it.
     
  14. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :lol: - Now who's being outright irrational? Look at you - getting all high and mighty on your Strawman.

    Way to go, in creating your own entirely biased narrative, Bokaj. :shakehead:
     
  15. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    LaLonde was a shell having to starve to make 168 lbs. The result may have been different if Leonard and LaLonde fought at 175 lbs, which they should have.

    Leonard was actually predicted to destroy Hearns in 1989 at 168 lbs. as Tommy had been KTFO by Iran Barkley and almost stopped by James Kinchen in his two fights before facing Leonard. So, it was actually looked at as a disappointing performance by Leonard when Tommy dropped him twice and survived the 12th round assault by Leonard and finished the fight on his feet.

    You're right that Leonard was a genius at getting guys right at the right time and with conditions he wanted. He thought he was getting Tommy at the right time, and it backfired.

    But, Leonard was not as good in 1987 as 1982, not by a long shot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019