Hagler vs Leonard 1984 (15 rounds)

I believe Hagler would stop Leonard in 13. Big difference between Marvin 87 and 84. He would out box him hit him all of it. And roll over Leonard like the sea.

 

This. SRL lands plenty of punches, none of which has much effect, and moves great.

However, ultimately Ray has a massive amount of difficulty keeping Marvelous away from him, and the latter dispatches him in sensational fashion in the 4th round. Ray couldn't have taken the bombarding Force of Nature Hagler was in '84.

 

Leonard loses.

 

It is hard to say. Hagler in 1984 was active and the best Hagler you could get. I think in someways he improved offensively as his reign went on, yet Ray was always faster. In 1984 Ray would not be as strong as in 1987 so he would really have to use speed and less holding.. I think Ray was always thinking Hagler and he was waiting for him to get old. He stayed in shape and even looked more solid at 160 than I thought he would against Marvin. He pushed him a few times and Marvin moved back. I think Marvin wins by decision in 1984 or late TKO. Ray was not strong enough in 1984 to move and counter and deal with a Marvin who had a decent jab. Not a Hearns jab, but decent.

 

But Duran , a natural lightweight, slower than Leonard was able to go 15rds with Hagler in 83"? Leonard had the frame and height to be a great Middleweight. Plus, how he would attack would've been a problem to Hagler at any point in his career, as it was shown in his losses to Watts and Monroe. Of course Hagler would've been much sharper in 84" but so would Leonard. Especially if he had stayed active

Styles make fights, and what Leonard was capable of doing would've made this a difficult fight for Hagler. Example Duran went 15 rds with Hagler, Hearns DESTROYED Duran in two. Hagler Destroyed Hearns in 3. Some fighters skills set matches up better with certain fighters.
If a fighter came at Hagler, its his wheel house, that's what he wants, he cuts any Middleweight in history in half fighting this way.
But if his opponent is patient, force him to lead, and uses angles, fights behind his jab. It gave Hagler problems. Not many fighters in history could've done that better than Leonard.
If Leonard was living a clean life and focused on boxing in 84, theirs no doubt in my mind he wins
But if it's the lackadaisical partying Leonard that Howard put on his ass, shows up, Hagler wins whithin 10rds... So all the "haters" with their passionate hate for Leonard so much so that they seem to forget/ ignore he was one heck of a fighter inside the ring. Get over yourselves.

 

That's a really good post. My instinct is that Marvin would dish out a pretty nasty beating. He was active, SRL wasn't; he was a middle, SRL was a welterweight.

But, as you say, Marvin struggled a bit with Duran and he might have had a moment of doubt when the occasion became the mega event that it was which would suit Leonard's extrovert nature but maybe stymie Marvin who was more withdrawn and less accustomed to the glitz.

As long as this isn't a physically diminished, partied-out Ray, this isn't the walkover I had initially thought it would be. Ray had hung tough as a younger man with the best version of Duran. A much lesser version of Roberto gave Marvin all he could handle three years and a few defeats on from that fight. Ray probably performed better in losing to Duran than Marvin did in winning and Ray had a way of rising to the occasion. He was quick, he was tough, he had a good corner and could think on the fly and, say what you will about Ray, he had a burning will to win.

I would bet on this fight and I'd bet Hagler by late stoppage or close but clear points decision. But I wouldn't bet much on it.

 

Hagler walks him down

 

This is pretty spot on for my money

 

This. I envisage a similar scenario. Ray gives Marvin a good fight,though.

 

Both were past it. Though Hagler won. That fight doesn't mean ****. Neither was at their best. Prime for prime Hagler kills Leonard.

 

many including myself would disagree with you about Hagler winning. And prime for prime I have doubts about him beating Leonard given that he barely got past Duran

 

I can see how many can see it this way on both counts.

 

This is a legitimate concern. But the ideas that Hagler had a little too much respect for Duran are kind of squashed by the incredible ko of Hearns...I can't see Hagler being any more intimidated by Hearns than Duran.

I think Hagler had a very off day with Duran.

Leonard wouldn't last 5 rounds against prime Hagler. He just didn't have the kind of shot Hearns did (and he even only temporarily kept Hagler off him). Ray would find himself completely overwhelmed and unable to stop him, though I imagine his foot speed would work to keep him away longer than Hearns was able.

Either way, Ray would have been devastated, and it would have been not entirely surprising to people at the time.

 

I don’t see anything to suggest that he’d be blasted easily at any point in their careers.