Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

I must concur.

By the way, I had Duran ahead going into the 14th round, with Hagler just shading it. Unbelievable

Leonard wouldnt come out to face hagler that year any more than he would face Micheal Nunn after his one punch of Kalambay

It's like they say, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is

The man (Sugar) just wasnt that good

 

"Duran's a heel-to-toe guy, he takes two steps to get to you. So the idea is don't give him the two steps, don't move too far away. The more distance you give Duran, the more effective he is. What you don't do against aggression is run from it, because then he picks up momentum. My guy won't run from him."

- Angelo Dundee

"He's soft. Leonard's the puncher in this fight. I think he's going to knock him out in 10 or 11 rounds because Duran hasn't destroyed anybody as a Welterweight... Ray's going to nail him. Ray's going to stop him in his tracks with the jab. Leonard's got so much talent they haven't seen it yet."

- Angelo Dundee



:rofl

 

Hagler won. That is the result of the fight on Nov. 10, 1983. Many guys made him look mortal. Vito made him look mortal, Roldan did also and pulled him down, but it looked like a knockdown. As a matter of fact Hagler did better with taller guys than shorter guys. He did well against Fully Obel. Regardless Duran lost just like Roldan did.

 

exactly wrong style for Ray. To plan to fight Duran's fight was not smart. Then he learned and adjusted and beat him easily. My question to Duran fans is this. Did Ray not beat Duran easily in the rematch and rubber match? in the rematch Ray kept Duran at a distance at his punching distance then held when he got close. He refused to let Duran dictate and he easily won.

 

I'll tell u who had the wrong style for Ray:guys like Norris, Camacho, Nunn

Ray did NOT LIKE SPEED! and these guys had plenty to spare

 

Yooz sorely missed red:yep You taken a sabbatical like me!

Same as plenty of us also that had Duran level or just ahead going into the final streatch until his tanked emptied & Marvin poured it on.

I recall back in 83 Leonard being interviewed aabout the Hagler/Duran fight by that the usual gang of leering drooling old homo's that passed for interviewers "When are you coming back Ray" Leonard fluttered his eyelashes & pouted his lips then winked & said "IF Duran wins i'am Definetly coming BACK!!! With that all yer heard was cooing & gurgling from the slimes "So you're definetly be supporting Duran" Oh Yes most definetly! Q more winking & fluttering of eyelashes from Leonard.

 

The style Leonard employed in New Orleans wouldn't of otherwise been a problem had Duran not been severely drained - his own fault, fine - in fact, it would've been disastrous just as Dundee alludes to above. Guy wouldn't let his hands go for jack ****. No interest in engaging in the slightest with a more skilled practitioner. And he didn't "almost win" in Montreal -- it wasn't particularly close.

 

I'd say they both beat eachother when it mattered.

Duran won the first matchup, and the best fight, but Ray embarassed him, avenged his loss, and stood by to reap the rewards.

Winning the trilogy is always better than winning the one fight. Duran is the greater fighter because of his lightweight reign, but Ray has the better resume higher up then that, and it isn't close. It wouldn't look half as impressive if he hadn't manage to TKO Duran.

 

Leonard fought in New Orleans like a man who was severely worried & scared shitless! He did'nt fancy another hammering like he took in Montreal. I recall the press back then castigating Leonard for his performence in lacking the required intestinal fortitude expected & required from a champion, not the tentative approach he employed which was deemed unaccepable in the eyes of many of the scribes of the day.

This is why the doubts about Leoanrd hung over him all the way up till the 13 the round of the Hearns fight when he finnaly silenced the critics. But up til then he was viewed as just a media creation & New Orleans magnified that view, with regards to Duran just walking out of the ring, it did'nt really get that much ink by way of slagging him down, everyone to a man knew he was a volitile nutter capable of anything.

AS one scribe wrote using the biblical quote of " He who is without sin cast the 1st Stone" He got a bollocking from the media but it was all about his temprement, whilst Leonard got more question marks against him that before Montreal. Leonard was expected to win & win BIG, but that was 8 rounds of dirge & as i said, thats why Hearns was viewed as the real deal & SRL the fake:smoke

 

thanks, I appreciate it Duranimal.

u kno I am just being honest. I am the biggest hagler fan out there. I know him thru & thru as a fighter, there was no end to his wizardry. Like they say, the man had no limitations

but, seemed ineffective with Duran. What I found very surprising is that Duran actually did land the heavier shots and made Marv miss & struggle. Marv was bragging we were going to see the best Hagler ever. Instead we got the worst (second worst if u count Leonard)

I also kno about Leonards comments. i seen them. his retirement was never for real. I dont kno why people keep insisting it was. It's like they cant accept reality

and like I said before, if it seems too good to be true, it is

Ray was just looking for someone easy, someone lifeless, someone with a reputation but who couldnt physically hurt him when he made his come back

I kno Angelo puts on a front with what Ray will do differently to Marvin when in reality their plan was to lay back until the time was right. and yeah, Ray let the cat out of the bag after watching Mugabi take him to task "I can beat him!"

well if he could beat him, why didnt he say while he was doing commentary on HBO?

but u kno his fans. they'll go on pretending, ignoring reaility to build him up

IMO, Sugar just wasnt that good. A few more wins like Pryor, Curry, Nunn wouldve helped his stature but I dont think he could handle them. Neither does he

 

Are you really saying these words again. Ray stayed outside and won the rubbermatch and that somehow proves he beats prime Duran. You are actually comparing Montreal Duran or even NO Duran and to the 89 Duran? Which Duran Ray has to fight means nothing? You do this with only Duran or every fighter? Any version of Ray loses to Norris every time? Frazier still with footspeed wont make it tougher for Ali like in 71 or does that not mean anything becasue Ali won the next two? Lewis easily beat Tyson. Which Tyson means **** all as long as Lewis boxes him i guess.

I think any best 70's version of Ali gets beaten by the best 70's version of Frazier. Im not 100% sure Montreal Duran beats NO Ray but you are 100% sure Ray wins despite Duran was not the same fighter. Its werid.

And one thing about the Montreal fight. It was not like they were trading bombs from the get go. Ray was hurt in the 2nd round and you are not gonna just easily outbox an intense Duran versiion with foot and handspeed , feints and the whole damn skillset away from you easily when you are hurt. And the beating Ray took to the body in the following round does not help either.

Im seriously losing it when you somehow manages to try make Duran naturally the bigger man than the legends that he fought after 80.atsch Becasue he was the oldest guy and had some bad habits at that point and took a fight at 154 means just that.Yeah he looked great still at 147 but come on. Duran could probably come in at 175 and fight Spinks as well at some point in the 80's. Does not mean a small guy is a his best there now does it. Its ******ed. He fought there before Heanrs so that makes him naturally than Benitez and Hearns sure.


Back to the topic. I think Hagler had the advatage with Ray beeing inactive that long despite Hagler beeing fairly inactive himself and this being his last fight. 5 yearsoff and beating a pound for pound beast at the time. Really is absurd.

The fight is really close imo. Some special guys like Ali or Ray are gonna get the decision when its close. Im saying that as a huge Ali fan. But its close and I don't have a problem with Ray getting it. Haglers own fault for not making it tougher for Ray early.

That being said as some have stated in this thread its an amazing win after that layoff. Even if its against a sliding Hagler its still an huge win. Just an unbeliveable will to win to go with all that speed.

Just a damn shame they did not fight when they were prime. This thread makes me wonder what the thoughts were back when they were close to fight before the layoff ( Only Ray knows if was really close obviously) On Rays chances. Big underdog in 87 but how much of an underdog before the layoff? Anyone older than me knows that?

Personally I think prime Ray would beat prime Hagler. Most of the time at least.

 

The question was about who had the advantage.
Are you honestly trying to say Hagler didn't have it here?

 

Mag, please stop lying. Wilfred Benitez was not a naturally smaller man than Duran. Because Duran fought at 154 earlier than Benitez did, doesn't prove Duran was naturally bigger. All it proves it that he was older and fatter when they fought. Benitez' tale of the tape proves he was bigger than Duran. Stop the lying please.

 

As great as Michael Spinks was(he would have destroyed, DESTROYED your man Virgil Hill, as well as Tommy, too) and as good as the division was at that point, the lightheavyweights were not a glamorous, moneymaking division that the welters and middles were. I don't believe Michael ever had a million dollar payday as a lightheavy-perhaps the Qawi fight?