Hagler vs Leonard - Who had the advantage?

Ray had all the power , the media , the fans etc..... it would be like going on Oprah and trying to win. Ray choses if and when to fight, not Hagler. Hagler does not do what Ray says then he is the one backing out , the coward. Hagler can only lose and Ray can only win, break even at the least.

Hagler walks into Ray's pub / bar and the two exchange heated words , Ray makes peacemaker , and says he does not want to fight and buys Hagler a beer. Hagler keeps on drinking while Ray watches Hagler while he drinks his soda water and waits. Hagler get drunk and cannot walk straight when he goes to the bathroom, Ray sees this and when Hagler comes back starts making fun of Hagler and taunting him and the crowd starts lughing, Ray says that Ray would KO Hagler if they ever meet in the ring and starts gouding him, with the crowd laughing Hagler being the proud man that he is challages Ray to go outside and Ray agrees. Hagler slips and falls on the way out but it is to late now for him to back out. and you all know the rest.


Floyd has copied Ray's style, well he tried to be the pretty boy but that got him know where so he became an ******* and has the same fake retirements etc.... Floyd came out of retirement (when his division started to heat up) to face the P4P no 2 in JMM and beat the odds

 

Wonderful post HOI,just about what I usually expect from you anyway.

Ray was further past his prime than Marvin was,rendering that basis of your argument utterly futile.

If he was putting Marvin at such a disadvantage,Marvin wasn't exactly poverty stricken,and Ray was past his prime even before he retired,so given that Marvin had only gradually slowed down and still saw off all-comers,so he was still oceans ahead of Ray in terms of sharpness and match fitness.
Marvin's slip against Mugabi was nothing compared to Leonards decline before the lay off.

 

8 Pages?

Really?


Let's break it down nice and simple.

Leonard retires.

Comes back and fights Kevin Howard at 154, doesn't look very sharp and even gets dropped. Ray promptly retires again.

Hagler goes on a 160lb reign of destruction. Considered by some if not most, a reign that establishes him as the greatest Middleweight champion we have ever had.

Hagler has a brutal fight with John 'the beast' Mugabi, with Ray Leonard in attendance. Ray sees holes in Hagler that he could exploit.

Hagler takes a sustained period of time off by his standards, during which he accepts the challenge to fight SRL.

Before I go any further, below are some facts and some of my own assumptions. Feel free to pull me up or to disagree.

Fact : Sugar Ray Leonard had not fought in years.

Fact : Marvin Hagler had.

Assumption : Hagler had always craved the SRL fight.

Assumption : Due to that craving, Hagler would of found motivation no problem. He trained his arse off.

Assumption : People often say 'The Mugabi fight took something out of Hagler' or something along those lines. I'd be inclined to agree, had Leonard beaten Hagler in a fire fight. The attributes Hagler showed with Mugabi (ability to take and to dish out punishment) were not factors in the Leonard fight. He was outboxed in spells and out manouvered.

Fact : Ray Leonard has several proper Boxing matches during his training camp. SO?! That was a genius move by Leonard. How do you get ring sharp? You ****ing get in the ring.

Fact : People will always find a way to discredit a win, or indeed a winner.


In a nutshell, my rapidly degrading classical forum, an out of prime, past his best weight SRL pulled a rabbit out of the hat and beat a Marvin Hagler who was past his peak. (Prime and peak, are totally different.) Leonard won thanks to his IQ, and understanding of the psycology involving both the judges and the crowd.

 

"25 title defenses against some decent people," your own words. Spinks was not decent nor was his era. Hill was stopped by Jones, dominated by Michalczewski and beaten by Tommy. He'd barely get out of a Spinks fight alive(Michael's era, too). I have nothing but respect for Tommy, but the 1st time the Spinks jinx lands, it's good night Tommy. As far as Hagler is concerned, for the record, he was gunning to break Monzon's then record for most title defenses. He never demonstrated any desire to move up.

 

Hagler was looking slow and old against Roldan. Even Merchant said so. It's not like all of a sudden Hagler looked old against limited Mugabi. Leonard managed a draw against Tommy how long after Hagler? He was not further past his prime than Marvin.

 

Fat. Duran was not bigger than Benitez. That is pure bull****. You are grasping for straws.

 

sure, that's why Hagler wore shades after the fight, just to look kool for the cameras

 

Roldan made everyone look bad. Even Hearns looked bad with Roldan, one of Hearns worst performances, but he got the win.

 

Duran was not a small guy. He could take bigger guys punches and he could be solid enough at weights as high as 168. And his right hand was underrated.

 

He was fat. And how old was he at 168? And just who did he fight and beat at 168?

 

he got up to 260 later walking around. At 168 he was fat? He looked fine to me.

 

Hagler had the advantages 'on paper', hence him being a massive favourite to win.

Leonard found ways to even those advantages up.
As he said, he was "the young guy coming back against an older one".
There was less wear and tear on Leonard.
He nullified a lot of Hagler's advantages at the negotiating table.

He also had the 'advantage' of being the underdog. Hagler was tightly wound and the expectations of him winning worked against him eventually in everyone's mind, likely including his.

And Leonard annoyed Hagler.

 

... between the first two Leonard fights.

 

No way. The most he got up between those fights was probably 190 or 200 at the most. I meant last after his last fight in 2001, he got up to 260 maybe more.

 

You crazy.
His post-fight poo weighed at least 220 in New Orleans.