Hagler vs. Monzon. Battle of the Legends.

P4P imo, does not mean moving up in weight snd beating guys, all that 'p4p' means by my understanding is basically 'regardless of weight class', or 'if all guys are assumed to be of an equal size or at a singular, fair for all parties, weightclass'. It just enables you to compare a straw-weight with a heavyweight without coming to the obvious conclusion (in real-terms), that the atg heavy would be 'better' than the atg straw-weight. Thats it, moving up and beating naturally bigger guys is not a pre-requisite for p4p greatness imo, a successfull campaign in doing so however, does enhance the legacy of such fighter. But i always rate a guy primarily in his prime at his best weight, and compare them on how good they were then, and how their legacies weigh up as a whole POUND-4POUND.

 

Monzon would have been too clever for Hagler. It would have been somewhat similar to his defenses against Briscoe and Valdez, reulting in a unanimous decision over 15 rounds. I think he would have frustrated Hagler, and would have rattled him with the right at times. Those last 5 rounds were Monzon's territory.

 

By the way, whoever posted that clip from Briscoe, excellent work ... very good stuff ! :good

 

Me too, also i think Greb with his workrate and late Hopkins with his spoiler-style would give him serious trouble.

 

Monzon's build and boxing brain would unhinge the Hagler express.

Marvin is going to find it hard to tackle Monzon's pace alternating style of poking and thumping. Marvin was slicker, but he did not fit as many molds as Monzon did, who always played the clever shots, whether under pressure or casually breaking down his man - proven against sterner opposition.

Hagler's style was perfect for breaking down the rough-house brawler - he'd have far more problems against the slicker Middleweights like the Griffith who fought Monzon.

As has been said, Monzon always fought his fight, the same cannot be said for Marvin who hit a few speed bumps against Duran and Leonard.

Monzon gives Marvin an awkward obstacle and then sees the fight through with toughness and a deceptive mix of boxing and slugging.

 

The idea of fighters being great in their division and stepping up in weight class is a relatively new one. I know Henry Amstrong did it and Robinson as well. For the most part, fighters used to stay in their own weight divisions. Hagler was an excellent middleweight but I think he is very overrated. Monzon was not an enjoyable guy to watch. He was ungainly looking in the ring but he was a winner and would have beaten Hagler because he was tremendously strong. I cant imagine Sugar Ray Leonard being able to handle Monzon. We know Leonard was able to stay with Hagler and take a decision win.

 

:blood

Around Robinson and Armstrong's time there were myriads, and farther back dozens upon dozens and dozens.

 

Never said it wasn't done. It's just that years ago, there were no junior or super divisions. A welter would have to go from 147 and fight 160 pounders. Now a welterweight can step up to 154 or go down to 140 and cover 3 divisions. Also, for the most part there was no call for fighters to step out of their weight class. Each division had excellent depth and good fights could be made in you own weight class. I said, " For the most part, fighters used to stay in their own divisions".

 

Monzon beats Hagler by a wide margin. Similar to the Briscoe and Valdez I matches.

 

Thats a silly thing to say because the HWT division is more or less limitless as long as you are over 190 lbs so in reality you could be facing a man 20 lbs or so heavier.
OK, that opponent is facing a man 20 lbs lighter but the danger is still there in the HWT division & if you are the best HWT on the planet & you are not the biggest HWT, then you actually get EXTRA p4p pts in my book. If you are the biggest & best then it depends how well you do your job compared to the best in each weight class.

At least thats how I judge this p4p thing anyway.

Ps. Havent seen enough of Monzon to say if he beats Hagler but he better bring his A game to have any chance, that much I do know.

:thumbsup

 

I agree it's silly. I was pointing out the limitation of the other guy's logic.

Not sure who would win this matchup. Needs a series. They would both be facing the best middleweight they ever fought.

 

No.

 

I really don't see how Monzon would beat Hagler. Monzon was not quick at all and was kind of one dimensional. He was a great fighter and beat some very good to great fighter's but Hagler was much faster, a harder puncher, and has a better jab. Speed troubled Hagler and Monzon doesn't have that so I think Hagler would win by decision.

 

I'm with you here in terms of the pick. Monzon mightn't have been the most multi-faceted fighter ever but his fighting style worked extremely well for him: he was so tough and a fundamentally excellet fighter with tonnes of ringsmarts. Anyway Carlos was a great fighter, an absolute legend but I just think a peak Hagler is a different kettle of fish to anything he ever faced. Marv would be a little bit too much for him I think, he'll be there working away at a pretty constant, relentless yet controlled offensive output throughout the contest.


Hagler: close split decision. :good

 

For the 50th time I give Monzon UD in that fight