hagler vs ray robinson at SMW

i think what you mean is called OCPD .

and btw , i think that if you really wanted them both performance , 163 could have been the optimal catchweight. very comfortable for hagler

 

We're a little sticky on details...

 

even at middle robinson was only 150lb.hagler would take a decision in this fight.

 

It depends where each man is in their respective timeframes. If we're saying the peak Hagler circa 1980-83 against the Robinson up to and including,the two Randy Turpin fights,I would go with Sugar Ray by close decision. Any later version of Robinson I would give it to Marvelous Marvin.

 

I`ll take it that you accidently typed SMW as opposed to MWT in your thread title.

You have to take each guy at their middleweight best & I think the Robinson that TKO`d Lamotta in 1951 beats any MWT that was ever filmed in the ring, that was simply a complete & excellent fighting machine, that version of Robinson.

Robinson`s foot speed & movement in general would cause Marvin problems, Ray could also hold his own when forced to fight as he was a much better & faster combination puncher & hit harder than Marvin with either hand.... I see him outscoring Hagler from the outside for the majority (1st two thirds) of the fight tho not having it all his own way & both guys having a give & take war in the last 3rd as both tire & Marv gets urgent due to feeling (correctly) that he`s behind.

Hagler has virtually 0 shot at stopping Robinson as he was more an accumalation puncher & Ray was as durable as they come anyway, I give Robinson a reasonable chance of stopping Hagler, he hit like a horse & hit very often in his prime so I wouldnt be shocked to see Marv take the 10 count but my money says close but clear 15 rd decision in Sugar Ray Robinson`s favour.

:good

 

Robinson was naturally bigger than his namesake Leonard tho, he was taller, had a longer reach, had comparable speed & hit harder with both hands... I understand this fight vs SRR will be a prime Hagler but if a past prime Leonard can beat a past prime Hagler without being bulled by the size, its a safe bet that a prime Hagler wont be able to bull a prime Robinson, especially as the bull Jake Lamotta couldnt.

Ps. Im not slagging your choice of `Hagler beats SRR` because its 2 of the best ever MWTs here afterall but I dont see the size as being the reason Ray loses, thats all.

:good

 

I think that how past prime Hagler looked like isn't that meaningful when we are matching him and SRR in their primes. Can we compare how much did Hagler and Leonard lost from their prime abilities respectibly? Tough call.

SRR struggled with strong and stocky LaMotta and I think that Hagler was better and stronger than him.

 

Better ? Yes.
Stronger ? Debateable, Id say no probably, JLM started at LHWT & often struggled making 160, he wasnt the tallest but was incredibly broad & strong, hence the monicker `Bronx Bull`

:good

 

I dont think any of these guys were that big

 

i think that one of the reasons for hagler's retirement was actually the lack of SMW division and his understandable reluctance to become a lhw.