Hagler vs Tony Ayala Jr.

I sure do remember the talk of Duran-Ayala. It was all over the neighborhood in 82. They almost did fight on Broadway in NYC in the summer of '82. Ayala was walking with Lou Duva. Duran, pot-belly and all was standing in a doorway singing with friends. They got in each other's face, according to Duva.

Duran is easy to hypothesize about in these ESB H2Hs because you have to consider him at his best -LW, DeJesus III. WW, Leonard I, MW, Hagler or maybe even Barkley... etc. At JMW, it's obviously the Moore fight where he was at his best, because Duran was up for that one.

The plan was for Ayala to fight Moore and then defend against Duran. I would favor Ayala to beat Moore, but Ayala to beat an inspired Duran going for his third title? That's a whole different beast.

Keep in mind, Ayala would have been about 22-0. Duran was 76-4 and had just handled a faded banger in Cuevas with relative ease. The experience factor would have made all the difference in the world: Ayala best opponent would have been the 12-0 Moore. Ayala's style is made for a Duran and age would not have been a factor. In fact, it would be in Duran's favor because he would not be nervy and he knew how to relax and pace itself. Ayala could barely control his rage in there. He even kicked a couple of opponents who had made fun of his mother after the stoppage. That kind of fighter just isn't going to beat Duran. Anger is the enemy in there, but Duran's anger was applied in science.

I've always looked at guys like Ayala and Mayorga as poor men's Durans.

Duran would have taken him apart. With ease.

 

Ayala, as I recall, did not like to get hit.
He was a terrific front-runner.
But wasn't too happy when somebody stood up to him.
Your basic bully.

 

That's a really good post, but I personally just don't see Duran being able to handle Ayala at 154. It's just that with Tony being bigger-boned, stronger, younger and that he hit a LOT harder, not to mention the relentlessness of his attack, he would've been too much for THAT version of Roberto to deal with. Roberto was carrying too much weight.
I just don't think that Duran would've been able to keep up with Tony for too long. He'd be constantly backing Duran against the ropes and mercilessly pound him until Roberto simply wore out.

Duran wasn't bad at this weight considering everything, but Tony just had unnatural talent and power.

 

Thats what they said in 1983 when Duran was about to fight Davey Moore...: younger, stronger, bigger boned, and he hit harder, and Duran was carrying too much weight. Duran ruined him in 8 rounds. That's not all. Duran steps up another division and faces Marvin Hagler who was bigger and stronger than Ayala. OOooops! That's not all, Duran rises from the ashes at the age of 37 and faces down a 6'1 MW who later campaigned as a HW.

--Have you been in a time capsule for the past 25 years?

Read your post again -it should change your mind after you think about it! As it stands now, I'm afraid that you overrate Ayala, and you woefully underrate Duran.

Again, Duran... would.... take ....Ayala ....apart.

 

.....

 

Respectfully, I don't think I do. Roberto certainly was impressive in upsets over Barkley and Moore, but I just can't see him beating Ayala. Neither Davey nor Iran had nearly as much raw talent as Tony, hit nearly as hard or attacked as viciously. Not to mention Tony always dropped Moore with ease in sparring, without benefit of a thumb in Davey's eye.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

 

In his only meaningful career there are zero examples to form this opinion. He never lost for starters, so how could we possibly know? It's zero use looking at the unit who fought post prison 17 years later.

Possibly the most Ayala got stood up to was the fight he was dropped in then went berko to leave opponent flat on the canvas. He then spat on him.

Of course he was never really tested at all against anyone meaningful before going to prison.

 

-and you to yours. I'll give you this much. The way you feel about Ayala is very close to how I feel about Ike Ibeabuchi -another knucklehead who blew his life to smithereens- and others have a real problem with the heights I see him potentially getting too -including over Lennox and Klitschko. He showed me that much.

Both men had danger written all over over them.

 

and both had similar records before going to prison....22-0 for Tony, 20-0 for Ike.

 

Ayala vs. Duran, good fight. I lean towards Duran, but El Torito was a vicious finisher. As for Hagler Ayala, all Hagler. He could box his ears off, and Ayala couldn`t dent the Marvelous one`s chin. And Hagler`s power and combinations would be too much for Ayala. late rd. stoppage.

 

I am one of Tony Ayala's few fans on this site, and after reading much about him, I must say that I think only peak Hagler could've taken Tony. He was such a rare talent. An exceptional combination of extraordinary skill, power and utter rage.

On the down side, even if by some miracle Tony didn't go to jail for ****, drugs and alcohol would've gotten him. Tony said that himself.

We'll never truly know, but it sure is fascinating to speculate on what might have been.

 

I agree. He was an incredible talent. Just a kid, not all that many fights. And we are speculating about him fighting two all time greats! I loved watching him back then. he had one fight (think it was Mario Maldonado?) who knocked Tony down. As he was getting up he started yelling at Maldonado. And I think he knocked him out in the next round. How about his fight with former stablemate Robbie Epps? El Torito blew him out in less than one round. He was absolutley at his most violent best that night. Sad story that his demons got the best of him...

 

Hagler would have ****ed Tony up..... badly.