Hagler vs Tony Ayala Jr.

LMAO!:rofl :rofl

Ayala at best would have been on the level of Vargas, only more talented than Nando. But still, he would NOT have beaten Leonard, Hearns, and CERTAINLY not Hagler, or McCallum.

He would have beaten Moore, and possibly Duran, but I woulda favored Roberto. Ayala would have brought out the best in Duran.

 

Neither would i. Mayorga is much more proven both ways. Mayroga's actually fought AND beat much better fighters than Tony ever did.

Tony definately made sure of that.

Hearns would have hit him that hard and fast he'd have thought he was surrounded.

:good

 

That's it.

Most folks evaluate fighters based on punching power and things like ko %. I look at defense not offense, because there really are relatively few ko blowouts in big fights. But you need to dig deeper than punching power and just look at things a few branches out from the trunk of the tree. And Ayala held those hands real low in there. And he was hardly fast handed or a twinkletoes when it came to footwork. He threw bodyshots from way way out on the outside. He dipped to the side to throw a left hook. And he was always stationary right in front of his opponent and very susceptible to a good jab. He just wasn't matched up against a jabber.

Telegraphing punches and a wide open defense aren't that big of a factor when facing the likes of Gregory and Herrera. It sure is when you go up in class and have to start thinking about defending against the speed and accuracy of the left hand Hearns threw. Or the 2 handed accuracy from the ton of combinations a guy like Hagler throws. Or dealing with the mobility of Leonard. Or the durability of a guy like Mccallum. Whole different ballgame when you look at the tools those guys had vs. the tools guys like Epps and Hallicy, and those grade C and B opponents Ayala beat.

I think Ayala would've beat a face first catcher like Moore. But there were lots of other guys around at the time capable of giving Ayala a hard fight & he had no experience against that caliber of top 10 opponent.

 

It sure is scary to think of what Tony would've done to Mayorga, though. Imagine how savagely he'd run over a trash talker like Ricardo who really pissed him off!

 

Tony Ayala remains another of boxings what if's ....we will never know because he is a sick guy and threw his career away .... that being said he was very impressive on his way up but to say he would have been a test for Hagler is a leap of faith .... dreaming Ayala reached the highest levels anyone imagined ...

Ayala was a pudgy 154 pounder, essentially a smaller man ... he was a hard hitting, hooking sort of swarming guy ... exactly the type a prime Hager, with iron chin, razor sharp punches and killer power chopped up ...

I see Hagler in about five or six ...

 

That's because he never fought anything better than a semi corpse. Any argument?

He did indeed have amateur mistakes. Whether he had the power, chin and determination to mask such flaws vs semi decent opposition or fix them we will never know.

When you put a good puncher vs Norris's glass jaw anything can happen. When you put a GREAT puncher against him with good hand speed, well, you know the rest.

They didn't exactly know what Foreman was packing did they.

As for Norris, he was the right man in the right place at the right time.

What a pile of fantasmic BS. Tony didn't prove he could "pick off" any top 10 opponent.

The tiniest movement of a decent ass sure worried him

:nut

Fair point, i can't remember either facing a violent ****** who ended up in prison.

Yeah, Hearns is the unproven one in this matchup :rofl

 

I tend to ignore the mindless Leonard bashing and the Ayala hero worship, but this is a great reply.

 

I do too unless i am bored.

Cheers

 

Ayala would have destroyed Mayorga, I'll give him that much. Mayorga was a flash in the pan who just happened to have Forrest's number. Stylewise Tony woulda beaten the **** outta Ricardo.

A more interesting matchup would be the young Ayala vs a prime Vargas. Now THAT would have been a war!

 

Tony would've shredded Vargas as quickly as Mayorga. Fernando would make the mistake of gunning with Tony and get flattened.

 

Mayorga is very similar to the guys Ayala fought----all easy to hit. Ayala had an opponent list like Riddick Bowe's; always matched up with guys that were very easy to hit and guys that weren't big punchers. Whole different ballgame facing elite fighters and continuing to get the same results.

You also have the age factor--early starters like Ayala don't last all that long. They win titles early and lose them early. To me, Ayala's career would've been like a Cuevas; a juggernaut when winning and mediocre > losing. And Ayala had a style that would see him take a beating before he'd lose. Then you have a rebuilding project on your hands and not very many brawler type guys ever have the same effectiveness in there > tasting defeat.

If Ayala is/was so great, I must need to re-evalute the skills of Epps/Herrera/Hallicy/Gregory and so forth. I never held them in high esteem and pretty much pegged them as set-ups going into those Ayala fights. I sure didn't know anyone picking any of those guys to be competitive, let alone win those fights, did you? The first live body he would've faced was Moore and that was a guy that was never going to hold onto a title for very long. And he was another easy to hit opponent.

 

He probably would have, but no-one can argue Maorga was a helluva lot better than any fighter Ayala ever beat.

That's the thing here, Ayala never beat anybody at all. At least with Mayorga we know what he has and hasn't got.

Do we know with 100% certainty Ayala even took a good punch?

I agree his talent was EXCEPTIONAL, but he would not be the first can't miss to fall flat on his face.

I'm still far from convinced he could beat Moore with all his heart and give and take ability.

 

If mugabi had have been incarcerated before the hagler fight would folks say he would have beaten hagler,hearns,mcallum and such like?
Even a proven star like mark breland never lived up to his hype and supposed talent,nobody would seriously suggest that breland would beat hearns,leonard,curry and such like,yet here we have rooster and laxydaxy claiming a pudgy unproven lt middle would beat hagler!!!!!!!
And better still would bash hearns,mccallum and such greats.......
Pure fanboy nonsense....
At least tyson fans can say he had a great little title reign and beat some world class fighters easily and brutally.....