Hagler vs Walker

I quoted multiple people noting the trend of peoples impression that he was unskilled to down right 'crude'. So you're taking my whole initial post out of context by pretending it was a direct, sole, response to you.

lol Oh ya you're not trying to deride Walker at all. Because that's all he's capable of, just a bullrusher. Amazing that he's regarded more highly than Leonard considering his limited nature.

You said he beat Walker easily and that it wasn't close aka competitive. Based on the footage i completely disagree. Relying on scorecards versus footage i'll take footage every time. You can have near shutouts on the scorecards that are in fact very competitive fights.

Yes context is fine but it's solely context that places the victory in a negative light saying things like Maxie never held the title again. True, but is him beating John Henry Lewis twice 8 and 4 months prior to JHL winning the title or drawing with Fox relevant? Seems you're helpfully providing context to diminish the victory over a skillfull ATG LHW while ignoring the context that is more flattering.

True he's generally not found in any top 10 divisions because he spent too few time there. As for noting it would be over 15 rounds i think a guy who put on one of the greatest MW fights in history against the P4P greatest boxer in history also known for inhuman endurance would fair fine in a 15 rounder.

Hagler is ahead by 9 spots on McGrain's list and we're talking opponents for Walker. Kind of noteworthy that Loughren was a LHW and HW no?

Your opinion he would win no not odd, wide, yes.

No we're talking about skillfull opponents and you seem unimpressed with the Rosenbloom win. What's more impressive the Rosenbloom win over a LHW ATG or a loss over a WW ATG that was retired for three years prior to the outing?

The funny thing is i'm a huge Hagler fan but playing the role of contrarian seemed necessary.

 

I am not pretending anything. I quoted you from a post you made directly to me.

He was known and described as being a boxer, who bullrushes his opponents with a two-fisted attack. In fact he was celebrated for it. I see nothing derisory in using this terminology and you, it seems, are going out of your way to find fault in mere semantics.

Let's also not get too carried away with mythical Pound-for-Pound rankings. Walker is recognized for his ability to traverse and compete at various, higher weights and this is why he gets deserved recognition, as a Pound-for-Pound great, but we're discussing a speculative head-to-head contest, at Middleweight; not who sits where on a subjective P4P listing.

It's my opinion that Loughran beat Walker with relative ease. I've seen limited footage of the fight and read the round-by-round reports in newspapers. Neither looked nor read as a particularly competitive bout. Walker was the aggressor but, in the main, kept at bay by Loughran's jab and movement; being caught often, as he came in. It was not a particularly eventful bout and I can honestly say that I saw nothing in it, which would lead me to consider Walker a particular threat to Hagler at Middleweight.

LOL - Why should I dress it up for your benefit? I merely added information that you omitted. Rosenbloom had already beaten Walker in a Title fight, 18 months earlier; he did have a poor run of form, over the 18-month period, prior to meeting Walker again and he did lose the title, later in the same year he had lost to Walker, never to regain it.

Of the John Henry Lewis fights, Rosenbloom probably deserved to win a very close decision, with his effort in the final round of their very last fight. He probably didn't deserve the decision, in their penultimate meeting. He'd already lost twice to Lewis in '33.

Tiger Jack Fox was allegedly robbed by the Draw. How much credit can be given here?

If you think these facts are unflattering then what does that tell you?

As implied, I don't think Walker was a particularly skilled boxer. He relied on toughness and a forward, brute force attack to overpower or outwork his opponent, which won favor with the Judges and Referees. Rosenbloom, with little in the way of an offense was someone Walker could and should have been able to overpower in such a way, with little in his path to stop him.

I wasn't doubting his capabilities to do 15 rounds. I was just stating the context in which this thread was asking us to speculate - of which the 15-round distance was a part.

Are we really going to count spots on a subjective list to determine levels?
I'm not.
Hagler was better Pound-for-Pound. Loughran being a LHW is noteworthy but not an influence. The bout in question is at Middleweight. Hagler's zone.

Wide, Comfortably? What does it matter?
I think it would be a physically taxing bout for Hagler, but not to an extent that he would be overwhelmed. In the process, however, I can't see Hagler having trouble hitting Walker - a lot.
Any set of rational scorecards would not end up recording a narrow points victory, in my opinion.

I suppose that depends on a couple of things. 1 - Whether or not one considers that Hagler himself, might have been on his last legs. 2 - Whether or not one considers that Hagler actually deserved to get the nod.

I've given my opinion on the Rosenbloom/Walker bout. I wasn't massively impressed with either Hagler or Leonard in their contest. In both fights, neither of the contestants were anywhere near their best. They are not ideal benchmarks, against which to assess a speculative fantasy match-up, in my opinion.

I would never have guessed.

 

Walker is about the same size as Duran, and as a welter champ (@152 lbs) fought Greb close for the MW title shot. Hagler will give Walker respect, but will box to a close decision, but Walker will have his moments too.

fyi:
"Damon Runyon reported this fight as being close, with Walker out-fighting Greb in the fifteenth:

"One tremendous splurge of wild fighting in the 14th round, during which he had Mickey Walker tipsy and teetering from his smashing punches, probably saved the title of middleweight champion for Harry Greb, the "Pittsburgh Windmill" here tonight. Walker made a determined attack on the the "Windmill's" body, round after round, and frequently hurt him with left hooks to the stomach and under the heart. Greb took a lead in the early rounds, loafed a bit and had been lagging along a bit behind up to the 14th when he suddenly clipped Walker on the chin with a swinging right that dazed the fighting Irishman from New Jersey. Walker backed into his own corner as Greb emptied every punch in his locker on him. Walker outfought Greb in the 15th and last round but Greb had offset anything Walker might now do. There was little demonstration as Joe Murphy, the veteran announcer, raised Greb's soaking glove." -Universal Service (reported by Damon Runyon)"