Hall of Fame Trainers Rate the Greats

Aside from Clancy, who isn't just a trainer, and Steward -if you forgive his last 3, these lists suck.

Trainers are not historians. I'd bet that 20 posters on this forum would make them look ignorant in a discussion about the history of the sport and the greats of the golden era. They are anything but objective -and Dundee is absolutely obnoxious: Ali, then Leonard. He has the gall to put Luiz Rodriguez in there! And George Foreman! He trained both of course. I could see him putting Willie Pastrano in there only because Pastrano must be among the greatest -because of his illustrious trainer.

 

I agree.

As much as I love him, Rocky has no business being in an all-time top 10 P4P list. No business at all. Neither does Foreman.

These lists are insulting.

 

Alot of heavies on those lists, whereas if you ask most people you'll probably only see three at most on top tens

 

Right. Guys like Monzon and Hagler were MADE for their particular weight class and had the sense to stay in that class and utterly dominate it. That is more impressive to me than a guy who hops from division to division, and that is so easy to do nowadays with all the many weight classes there are which *******izes boxing when you compare it to the past when boxing had fewer divisions. The aforementioned Monzon and Hagler were also unique in terms of sense, or intelligence, if you will, in that both walked away from the sport and never came back. Monzon left while on top and Hagler, in my opinion, was virtually on top, as I feel he didn't really lose to Leonard in that final fight of his.

 

ATROCIOUS is the word, and i respect these guys a lot for what they have done, but making these lists is not their forte.

I dont personally see how Moore can be above Duran, Ali or Greb.

Moore is one of the elite of 175's history i know, but never above them imo.

 

I think p4p in a ATG sense should be the guys who were the very top tier in elite terms, and h2h should come into it also i believe.

You gotta pick who you think are the best 10 fighters ever, the 10 best of the best, so yea, i think Hearns, Foreman dont cut that

 

I probably have Ali as nr. 1 in terms of talent (I'm a fan, though), but SRR in terms of record. I think a fighters record is the better yardstick, though. It's more subjective to compare fighters talents based on how they looked on film. There's also so many factors too take into account.

SRR, of course, looks great on film as well as having an outstanding record. Duran looks outstanding on film (as a lightweight) as well as having a great record. I suppose he and Ali are really close there. RJJ, at his peak, looked surreal on film. Armstrong looked really good as well, but not as good as those menationed above IMO, but his record...

Seeems like I'm kind of rambling here. But I would like to mention Hearns as well. A truly awesome fighter who's always great to watch. If his durability had been as good as his right hand he might very well have been nr. 1 p4p.

 

Let this be a lesson to us all, that even the most respected people in their given profession, can be just as guilty of selection bias as the rest of us. Clancy, Dundee and Duva were all members of the same generation, so its not surprising to me that some of the names are very similar. Its also even more telling when we talk about bias that Dundee has both Ali and Leonard as his #1 and #2, seeing how he trained them.

The moral of the story should be, that no one's testimony is to be taken as gospel.

Of course, Manny Steward was absolutely correct for having George Foreman on his list.....Oops, now I'm doing it.......

 

These guys are protecting their own 'legends' and building up their own careers. I also doubt whether they gave it too much thought, which is why HWs are probably over-represented here.

 

Now, I'm generally not one for the ad hominem style of argumentation, but when both of a guy's top two and four of his top 10 are guys he personally trained, would you agree that tends to raise questions about his objectivity?

 

You know, while everybody is justifiably trashing Dundee for his considerable bias, I'd like to acknowledge Clancy's modesty in leaving Griffith off his list. (Do you suppose that Dundee would have omitted Emile if Griff had been one of HIS charges?)

 

I was suprised to see Foreman twice. Hey, though, he is one of the alltime power/chin/strength combos.

 

Makes you wonder if trainers actually know anything about boxing sometimes.