Hamed or Tszyu?

Zoo missed the big names more than Hamed.

 

If Hamed had Tszyu laser focus to his art he probably would have been champion
as long as he liked. Tszyu got as much out of has career as he could unlike Hamed.

 

I agree about Naz but am curious about why Tszyu is so highly rated. Perhaps I should just watch him but was wondering what to look out for. I saw him beat the Snake to win the title and he looked good and obviously he looked useful vs Judah but, well, he lost handily to Vince Phillips. Just wondered what was so special and what to look for. If you get a minute, I'd appreciate your views.

Stay nice and safe, mate. How are you all doing down there?

 

This is interesting.

I assumed Tszyu would the easy pick but some of these assessments feel like they have validity, so I am interested in more perspectives and may have to go and watch some video.

To my thinking, Tszyu was a solid champion at 140 and perhaps one of the best behind Pryor and Arguello, I am sure I am forgetting someone but during the time of his career I think most people saw him that way.

His skill set was much more effective than Hamed when faced against equal or superior competition. Tszyu’s win over Judah changed Judah’s entire career and the perception of Judah. It went from “can anyone beat this man“ to feeling like he had been exposed similar to Hamed being exposed, in his prime, against Barrera.

It almost feels like an insult to Tszyu to be compared to Hamed. The better comparison is Hamed to Judah.

 

Was his skill set more effective? Bungu and Tom Johnson were as good as any Zoo opponent outside of Judah and Hamed beat the crap out of them. Zoo also got knocked out by Phillips, didn’t rematch, and almost lost to Urkal in his prime. Hamed only lost by a few points to Barrera at a point in his career when he had lost focus and had bad hands.

 

Bungu was an old midget and Tom Johnson crude as hell

 

Larry Tesler, inventor of the cut, copy, and paste commands, dies at 74.

 

Quite good where i am Eddie and Australia's being going great in the big scheme of things but we have a huge advantage via population density or lack thereof imo. Until yesterday we'd only had 8 cases in my city and a couple of them were outside us really. Yesterday however a nurse at an old peoples home was confirmed positive and she'd worked a couple of shifts while infected. for some reason she appears to have picked it up in Brisbane which is 700km away and we've had some pretty heavy travel restrictions. Some workers still travel at times tho. Contact tracing is going on and the locals are in a bit of a worry as it would be unfortunate to have things escalate at this point in time when we've done so well.

KT dominated the 140 pounders for a long long time. He built up some good early momentum before being dealt a harsh lesson by Phillips. KT was still learning his trade and more importantly learning to become a true professional. I'll expand on that later. Phillips was actually a good fighter and a decent looks at his record shows him to be quite handy. He was a guy who could make 140 campaigning at 147. He had a few successful defenses then tailed off pretty noticeably as age caught up with him. I see it as a Joe Louis - Schmeling type loss, a speed bump that was needed. Sure Vince was no Schmeling but KT was no Louis either. Also note that KT showed plenty of heart in this one.

After this he accelerated rapidly and went on to dominate the division for 6 or 7 years winning all the big titles. He had plenty of good wins in this period. It was an extremely dominant reign too with only two guys post Phillips Judah was hyped up in America as the next huge thing, a Pernell Whitaker with power which is some praise! KT tracked him down in no time. KT was a solid 2 1/2-1 underdog and the stoppage never gets old. One of the great spectacles of boxing history and continued drama as Judah carried on like a pork chop. Rumour has it Tyson called his behavior unprofethional.

Besides the obvious power his footwork and balance are superb. He controls range beautifully, cuts the ring well and jumps on a stunned or backtracking opponent. He is a precise puncher and doesn't waste many. Great killer instinct, extremely good finisher, durable and doesn't get flustered. Great will to win and just an honest very committed pug really.

I don't think he's that highly rated of in here. He's got plenty of knockers among some supporters.

 

Incidentally his son is making a bit of noise here right now. This was some of what KT passed on recently -

There was plenty of mutual respect at the announcement, with Kostya Tszyu sounding a word of warning for his son.

It was in his 20th professional fight that Tszyu suffered his first professional defeat to Vince Phillips in Atlantic City in 1997. And while Tszyu is not expecting an upset between Brubaker and his son, he said it was the perfect lesson for Tim to learn.

"[Phillips] gave me a great lesson which helped me achieve my goal, to become undisputed champion of the world. It was because of him," he said.

"One time a few years [ago] we saw each other I said 'Vince, thank you very much for that lesson'. He said 'are you sure you're saying that right?' I said 'yes. Because if you did not beat me that badly that time I would never receive that big experience and lesson'. Otherwise I would never have changed my attitude towards sport.

"[Before] that fight I was a professional boxer but never a professional athlete. Since then I became a professional athlete. Everything I did in life was for one thing, to become a champion, to be the best. That's something I want to teach my son. I think he's doing very well [but] every step is hard. Every fighter is willing to beat you. And you have to be the best. I'm proud of what he's done already.

"Of course [I'm not expecting an upset]. This was a lesson for me. And I hope he's going to listen and see what can happen if you're not going to train properly. There's no shortcuts in our sport. You have to sacrifice if you are to achieve something. Early morning get up, disciplined in what you eat, how you live, what you do.

 

Thanks for taking the time to post, mate. And thanks for letting us all know you're okay. Let's hope it stays that way.

I've since had a look at few fights, Hurtado, Mitchell. He could really dig to the body couldn't he? And he really snapped his shoulder when he threw his big shots. Obviously I looked at two winning contests but even so, he had a bit of presence. Knew how to deal with southpaws too. I felt at the time that we shouldn't go overboard on Ricky Hatton's win as that wasn't the best version of Kostya. It was still a good win but should carry an asterisk if we;re crediting him with beating an ATG.

Thanks again.

 

Anytime Eddie. Yeah it's well accepted KT was struggling by the time of Hatton. He'd had 3 fights in 3 1/2 years and actually just 3 rounds in about 2 1/2 years and was 35yo. The injuries and inactivity leading into the Sharmba rematch had some thinking Sharmba might be good for an upset. Hatton fought really well tho and credit to him.

 

Tszyu, but it's close.

The fact that Hamed peaked so young distorts the picture regarding his longevity and depth, which people often use as a stick to beat him with. He actually had more world title fights, and wins, than Tszyu. He had his last fight at 28 and was already looking like he'd gone a shade over the hill. That's the same age Tszyu was when he got taken apart by Phillips. At a glance I suspect a lot of people take it for granted that Tszyu had a lot more championship longevity than Hamed (which he did if you measure it purely in years elapsed, 1995 - 2005), but I think the amount of time / fights both men spent as the consensus and absolutely proven number one in their weight class is pretty even, maybe even favours Hamed a little.

Hamed is at a disadvantage here as it's difficult to pinpoint his best win. He has a solid number of good wins, but none which really have that extra bit of glitz. Depending on what you like, you could probably argue that any of Johnson, Kelley, Vazquez or Bungu were his best victory. No such problem for Tszyu, who reached an absolute zenith against Judah. A big, headline-making win (as a slight underdog) against an unbeaten, prime and talented champion, and at the same time in a fight which tied up all business in the division and left no room for argument over who the real champion was. None of Hamed's wins have that same significance and impact across the board.

On the other hand, Hamed never had a low point like Tszyu's against Phillips. If Tszyu has the better wins, I think it's fair to say he also has the worse losses, even though there are only two of them. Fine margins.

Both of them cleaned out solid divisions (second time round in Tszyu's case) and did more or less everything they could reasonably be expected to do their until they eventually got dethroned. Hamed lost to a far better fighter than Tszyu did, but Kostya's loss to Hatton is softened a little by his age and inactivity, and doesn't harm him too much. Ultimately while it's very close between them, Tszyu got more out of himself and proved himself a little more than Hamed - coming back from the Phillips loss and that signature win against Judah just give him the edge here.