Haney was 165lbs vs Prograis

158, so he wasn't tiny either

 

I'm conflicted on this.

On the one hand, yes, it's cowardly to want that kind of size/weight advantage.

At the same time, it's not like cutting to this extreme an extent is without risks - so cowardice can't be all of it.


I think ego is a big part of it... And it's why I've come to like the term "weight bullying" - like school playground bullies, extreme weight cutters are just picking on guys noticeably smaller than them in order to ensure dominance and inflate their egos (partly, maybe mostly, as a result of admiration displayed by fawning onlookers).

 

That’s what I suspected.

 

I call it discipline and dedication.

 

Okay but if he'd come in at weight, without those 25lbs of replacement fluids, would he have been capable of the stamina and concentration to maintain that shutout across 12? No.

Heck, even just take 9lbs of rehydration back so they're both at 156...
Is he at a significant disadvantage at 156 compared to his 165 version? Yes - that's still plenty of fluids to leave sharpness affected.
Does he still win this matchup? Probably, yes, but not nearly as comfortably.

And this is basically the point - it's not just about being bigger and heavier, although that does grant a significant advantage... But also that for a given fighter, it's unfair to make weight in a condition they couldn't fight at, only to balloon up into a fighter who belongs in a heavier category for fightnight.

Or put another way... In order to make weight without being a dehydrated zombie, the same fighter would have to trim off a significant amount of muscle (and fat, if they're carrying much of it) - would that same fighter with less muscle, to belong at the weight fairly, be able to compete with a more hench version of themselves? Don't be silly.

 

Exactly. Hagler weighed 157 once when he defended the middleweight title.

What's a guy weighing 156 doing defending a 140-pound belt? They're all frauds.

Move weigh-ins back to the day of/afternoon of the fight.

If Haney wants to weigh 165 and feels he's strongest at that weight, then he's a super middleweight. If Prograis feels most comfortable at 156, he's a middleweight.

It was that way for most of the 20th century until they screwed up and moved weigh-ins back a day.

I don't know how they feel this is "safer" having guys compete in a weight-loss competition in the days before a fight. It certainly isn't giving us BETTER FIGHTS.

And just imagine how LOADED some weight divisions would be if they actually moved weigh-ins to the afternoon of the fight?

Instead of guys drying out before a fight and hopping from one division to another all the time, they'd all just fight in the same weight class FOR YEARS together.

 

That is a crazy drain, and he showed no effects from it.

 

Yeah, I think both Canelo and GGG were just a bit above 165 lbs for their rematch. Crazy to think that Haney wouldn't have been small there in the ring with them.

 

You're arguing a point I don't necessarily dispute. I said rehydrating 25 lbs is crazy. It's silly to me, just fight in a proper weight class

However a couple things, the weight advantage over Regis wasn't that great, Regis walked into the ring weighing more than Bernard weighed in at against Oscar, so it's not like it was 165 vs 140 lb'er it was 165-158. They were both MWs. They both had rehydrated their asses off (technically back on).

I'm personally for rehydrate limits or same day weigh ins as well as them only having the same weight classes as they do as amateurs. A lot of this could be cleared up....................I acknowledge it probably won't though.

 

I don't care, it's an even playing field at the end of the day

Yes, this lends credit to Loma's P4P greatness, but sadly Loma will be forgotten, fighting B-tier fighters like Kambosos. Results are what people remember, usually, over performances

 

What i think is most ironic here, is we have all these additional weight classes added over the years, ostensibly so that fights can be more fair with the original 8 weight classes deemed to have too big gaps in between, with fights not being fair.

But it seems to me with cutting and nutritional advancements fighters have much more choice of where the can target their cut.

Look at Haney, if it was the original weight categories, he would have had to move up from 135 > 147? Whilst he was making 135 - and not sure how tbh - he obviously couldn't continue to make it; but like Crawford before him, he can quickly pick up titles in multiple weight classes boosting his cheevos, whilst still not fighting where he would traditionally belong @160

 

The 154lbs guys will be 170lbs on the night

Haney has pillow fists too so it's not a good idea for him to travel up too much.

147lbs is probably his max effective weight

Unless 154lbs lacks talent and punchers, he shouldn't move up there too quickly