Hank Kaplan, Bert Sugar, Teddy Atlas, George Foreman and Joe Frazier rank/ed Joe Louis the HW GOAT

H2h Louis and Dempsey were the best ever. Give Louis two or three matches and hed beat almost all of them

 

Well, Joe Louis' record is also absolutely impressive. The longest title reign ever. Lineal HW champion with 26 defenses. He fought many well-known opponents, is great to watch and is the greatest puncher ever according to the Ring magazine...
There are definitely reasons to put him ahead of Ali who also had a fantastic career (even two) and was handicapped due to his ban. But then a thought diminished Louis' rating a bit to me.

Until the end of WW II, or more precisely 1947, he never defended his title against a black boxer other than John Henry Lewis who was his friend, more of an LHW-boxer and was almost blind in one eye....

I thought how long would Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier or Sonny Liston be world champions if they only boxed against white contenders. Maybe 10 years or 15 years? how knows...at some point they would have to pay tribute to age.... or might lose to an underdog... But who should beat them? Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Henry Cooper, Karl Mildenberger or Joe Bugner? That would be a bit like Jack Johnson's title reign with rather mediocre opponents. But of course, Louis fought against Walcott later and his career is still awesome...

But this thought became more and more relative to me later on. I realized that boxing used to be a lot more popular among white people in the 30s and 40s and there were many more strong White American fighters. I also think that the black contenders were likely not better than the white ones until guys like Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and maybe Elmer Ray took over roughly said in the second part of the 40s. Surely there was Jimmy Bivins who fought against Joe Louis later in 1951 but Bivins won and lost in 2 close fights against Bob Pastor. Pastor had beaten Turkey Thompson twice and Lem Franklin but lost to the great Billy Conn... I just mean there was no Harry Wills in those days.

And Joe Louis sparred against many black fighters, had exhibition fights against them and was the folk hero for all Americans...

And let’s not forget his rematch against Max Schmeling (who said: "Joe Louis just fought like from another star"). The pressure on Joe Louis, the political situation...but his rematches were always better.

Man, what a great champion!

But I still give Ali the slide edge due to his outstanding opponents. Anyway, I think they are interchangeable.



About the Klitschkos: Yes, I am missing them too now and supported AJ too. AJ was the long-awaited real deal to me after I saw him in the Olympics. I said to a friend: Now I know who will finally beat WK. But, on the flipside, I've always underestimated Tyson Fury and thought the world of Magomedrasul Majidov….

Yeah, I can remember the Sturm vs De La Hoya fight. I was very pissed off afterwards and thought it was a robbery (just because of the 6th division belt and the following big money fight against Hopkins). Then, I had had enough of boxing temporarily.
I'm not up to date right now...

Best greetings to you Drago

 

Great list! Personally, I'd have Holyfield and Foreman higher, and no Tunney in the top 10, and Dempsey would be on the list, but I like your list! And I'd never argue with anyone, who had Joe Louis as The Heavyweight GOAT!