" Yeah, take sandwiches, the guy can fight all day. " - Gene Fullmer This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected
It was Johnny DeJohn who Carmen credits for refining him as a boxer. I don’t think it would be fair to call Basilio a “Dundee fighter” he was usually brought in for other services. I believe he just wrapped Carmen’s hands.
Yeah, didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I was looking at it more from the angle of Dundee’s first taste of the big time, rather than his coaching Basilio. Should’ve been clearer.
I've wondered for a long time just how much substance there was to Angelo. I assume he could close a cut. He had the gift of gab between rounds and with interviewers but I don't know how much he could teach a fighter in the gym. He had the advantage of being the brother of a big promoter who owned the Fifth St. Gym. I believe Angie was a promoter, too -- of himself. I would love to hear Ray Leonard tell us honestly just what he thought of Dundee as a trainer. Please, someone who has the opportunity, ask him.
Peter Wilson after the first fight " This was a fight of two opposites, on one hand you have the suave sophisticated Robinson, with his huge smile and handsome face, then you have the craggy, rough hewn, iron boned Basilio, this was a fight between the bull and the matador, and on this rare occasion the bull won, Basilio posed but one problem for Robinson, he would have to take his heart out, and then stamp on it " Stay safe guys.
Luis Saria was the real trainer at the 5th St Gym (and brought in most of those fighters from Cuba and the Carribean). Dundee was more of a behind the scenes guy. He had the connections through his brother. Think of him as a hype man. For most of his fighters he only worked with them for a week or two before fight time and even then I dont think he did much hands on training. Basilio, Dupas, Pastrano, Rodriguez, etc were all trained by other guys who relied on Dundee as more of a cornerman and again, for his connections. But as you stated the one thing Dundee excelled at was self promotion.
Truth Dundee is thought of by many as this all knowing boxing trainer to God like status. Truth is he was a great cut man and an even better self promoter. If you know comic books Angelo was like Stan Lee the mouthpiece, whereas guys like Ray Arcel and many others were the Jack Kirbys.
Leonard gave a ton of credit to Dundee. So did Ali. When Ray was training for Hagler, it wasn’t going so well. So they brought in Angelo early, for most of the training camp, to work strategy and fine-tune him. Ray brought that up afterward and repeated it over the years. I think Angelo’s greatest gift was as a cornerman. He seemed to have the right words at the right time and knew how to get to different guys in different ways and punch all the right buttons. He also didn’t seem to have a panic button himself, always a steady influence but ready to light a fire under his guy when needed. True he didn’t do all the day to day training, but he developed game plans and took what each guy had and almost always enhanced it. Angelo was also a whiz at guiding careers and exposing fighters to various styles to prepare them to not just win a title but hold onto it … giving them the right challenges at the right times. Leonard’s and Ali’s careers are a testament to this. I remember someone else in Ray’s camp accepted verbally an offer to fight Thomas Hearns when they were still coming up for like $100K and Dundee was on a cruise or fishing trip where he couldn’t be reached. They told him when he got back and he called the network and canceled it. Told Ray (a) you’re not ready, Hearns is a beast; and (b) you’ll fight him, but it will be for millions, not hundreds of thousands, and when you do you’ll be ready to beat him.
I don’t believe Angelo Dundee trained any of those guys either despite the lore today. Annoyingly to me at least Angelo has always said “Guys I trained” Carmen Basilo was refined by Johnny De John and It was Whitney Esneault who taught Willie Pastrano and Ralph Dupas wasn’t it? Luis Rodriguez was built in Cuba alongside Jose Legra “The Pocket Cassius Clay” by Luis Saris. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear Angelo Dundee take credit for what Luis Saria did with Muhammad Ali or any others as Dundee was fine saying he trained Luis Rodriguez plenty of times. Before people say otherwise I think Angelo Dundee and any sensible person knows how it sounds to the public when he says he trained these fighters over and over. “Best Boxer: (three-way tie) Sugar Ray This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected
Considering his, to say the least, arduous career, it was great how lucid he was well into retirement. His 30 rounds with Sugar Ray were epic. One of my all time favourite’s
My wife is from Syracuse and he was a big deal up there since he was born nearby in Canastota, yes, that's where the Boxing HOF is situated. Had a restaurant I believe. Nicknamed The Onion Farmer.
