Harold Johnson vs Jack Dempsey

Agreed. Old creaky Dempsey had him on the floor. Prime Dempsey keeps him there...Tunney is good enough to have some moments, but facing a Dempsey who has his legs, would be too much for Tunney...

 

Really? Greb was "lucky" he didnt get Dempsey? And he "could not get past Norfolk"? Really? I wonder if Norfolk felt the same way as he lay in a hospital the day after his bout with Greb? If I were a Dempsey fan I wouldnt even mention Norfolk. Dempsey avoided him like the plague, at least Greb fought him. Look at one of those articles I posted which advises Dempsey to steer clear of Norfolk who helped train Brennan for that fight. Dempsey avoided sparring Norfolk, avoided him in an exhibition, and avoided a real fight with him both before and after he won the title. Had Dempsey actually fought someone like Norfolk or Wills in their primes we might know more about him. Instead Dempsey chose to play with a dying man, a guy Greb owned, and a guy who wouldnt step into the ring with Greb for a kings ransom. Yeah, real Tiger youve got there. Look what Norfolk did to Siki and look what Siki did to Carpentier. Of course Dempsey looked great fighting Carpentier. He was fighting a guy who was getting broke in half by a shot Billy Papke ten years earlier. I would hope he would look outstanding fighting that guy. How do I rate Gibbons? I rate him is the guy who got a shot at Dempsey because he lost to Greb in one sided manner and still managed to win more rounds against that "bigger, stronger, faster, and better conditioned man-killer" than he did against Greb...

I dont know I just always find the Dempsey mystique puzzling when its examined rationally. People went nuts over him because he beat up a fat, out of shape, 37 year old mediocre fighter who had notched a paltry 25 fights over an 8 year career and was coming off a layoff of over 3 years and trained like **** for the fight. Woohoo. Stuff of legends. He then defends against a man who was literally dying. DYING. And Dempsey knew it. LOL. A guy he had already knocked out once and who hadnt really notched a win worthy of getting a title shot since being dominated four times by Greb. That guy went life and death with Dempsey and rearranged his face for him. I give him a pass on Carpentier because that fight was huge but Carpentier had no chance whatsoever, as I said above he lost to the best fighters he faced. And a fraud who couldnt box his way out of a wet paper bag. The guy was so clueless an old fat Jack Johnson kicked his ass in sparring and was removed from his camp. He was 6'2" and 220 (his only redeeming quality as a fighter) and he still managed to duck 5'8" 165 Greb. And that clueless oaf knocked Dempsey down three times, one time out of the ring, and Dempsey still had to break half of the rule book to beat him. Even Tunney, as good as Tunney was, was signed as the lighter option between he and Wills. Dempsey wasnt a Tiger, he wasnt fearless, and wasnt dominant. He was a protected, carefully matched, overhyped cash cow.

 

Great post

 

At least the men of Charles and moores era knew how to keep there hands high, throw combinations, hook off the jab, triple up the jab, and move there head on defense.

 

But there is...cause it's debatable if he was even better than Harry Wills. Wills beat much better competition in arguably was the best of the era

The best men Dempsey beat got dominated even worse by Harry Greb

Dempsey's whole career was built on beating contenders who weren't the divisions best.

Was Dempsey the best of his era? We don't know

 

Miske was dying from Bright's disease. Doesn't count

 

Great post

Fans have been fooled by Dempsey the past 90 years. The more I study his career I see that he is a very overrated hall of fame champion

I don't rate him in my top 10. Never will

He never fought black fighters in a professional fight after getting his ribs smashed by John Lester Johnson, drew the color line, ducked a fight with Sam Langford in 1917, ran out of the ring against joe Jeanette in 1918, ducked kid Norfolk, never fought the two overwhelming best contenders of his era Harry Wills and Harry greb. Dempsey not fighting Harry wills will go down as the biggest duck in boxing history

Fans get trapped by Dempsey because he has a few early sensational knockouts over unskilled unathletic plodders, and because he demonstrates footwork and head movement that most fighters from the era didn't possess...but he had his flaws. They were visible on film and a there is a huge black mark on his resume

 

S, tell us what you really think of Dempsey ?. Don't hold back.:happy...
I have him as one of the greatest heavyweights ever. SO THERE...ciao...

 

Explain to me why I should give him a pass for failing to fight Harry wills and Harry Greb?

To me the difference between not fighting them and beating them both is the difference between being rated # 12 all time heavyweight vs # 4 all time heavyweight on my list.

That's a big deal

 

Your hatred of Dempsey knows no bounds...I will go with the legion of great fighters, trainers and boxing writers who saw him and the heavyweight champions who followed Dempsey and
raved about him over your vitriol anytime. Sam Langford, called the peak Dempsey the greatest heavyweight he had ever seen, as did Gene tunney, Mickey Walker, Jack Sharkey, along with Max Schmeling,as well as Ray Arcel. These guys knew a helluva lot more than you do S, for darn sure...

 

Did Harry Wills call Dempsey the greatest of all time? Did Harry Greb?

 

Who in this world living today can know who my man Greb or Harry Wills, considered the greatest heavyweight ever ? Not you or I ...But the great fighting names I have mentioned, know a heck of a lot more of what made Dempsey a great fighter, for the
simple reason, they either fought him or saw him RINGSIDE...
S, what are your credentials...?...Still waiting S...

 

S, who are you to "give" or not "give" Dempsey a "pass". ?
damn it you know that Dempsey and Wills DID sign up for a bout
which was cancelled because the promoter couldn't come up with the rest of the money, because of this they didn't fight. YOU must know this, but S, your utter hatred of Jack Dempsey
precludes you from absorbing this fact...A far as my idol Harry Greb, Dempsey's camp must have felt that it was a no win situation to give Greb a fight. If perchance Harry Greb somehow
escapes Dempsey's power and beats Jack, well there goes their mealticket. on the other hand if Dempsey catches up to Greb and stops the 25 pound lighter Greb, the public would bellow "why doesn't Dempsey pick on a man his own size " ?. Truly a "no win situation ".. Adios...

 

So just because another fighter says something it's the gospel?

Am I supposed to believe because archie Moore said " no man past present or future could slug it out with marciano and come out alive" that marciano would be able to go toe to toe with foreman liston tyson and win?

No way

 

Your quoting 1 man Archie Moore, whilst I am quoting a Sam Langford, a Mickey walker, a Gene tunney, a Jack Sharkey, a Max Schmeling, a Ray Arcel. I win 6 to one...:hi: