Harold Johnson vs Jack Dempsey

janitor · Jul 14, 2015

klompton2 said: ↑

Who disappeared or moved back?
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I think there is a legitimate question, over whether Greb was continuously a force in the heavyweight, division over this period.

He fought in three separate weight classes, and seems to have focused on middleweight and light heavy, over this period.

The fact that he was only ranked at middleweight in 1924, might legitimately reflect this.

The only evidence you or anyone else has is Fleischers own word. Thats not evidence. Furthermore my point stands, Fleischer was nothing more than a mouthpiece for Tex Rickard, bankrolled by him and housed in his own office. You might as well argue that Ring magazine is impartial when it is owned by Oscar DLH and features an issue with his picture on the front page, back page, and an article about him despite the fact that he had been well retired by then.
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I don't think that your point does stand.

It is quite a big jump from Fleischer consulting Rickard, or asking him to endorse his rankings, to saying that Rickard controlled the rankings.

That is the sort of claim that requires evidence to back it up.

Based on what? But, even if that were true, its ridiculous that he got a shot four years into Dempsey's reign when Dempsey had spent those four years avoiding his top two guys who had been chasing him since BEFORE he won the title. And thats the point. Dont pick a guy who DID NOT deserve it after three gimmes in a row over your top two guys and tell me you are a dominant champion.
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Two point have to be made here.

Firstly Dempsey is not the only dominant champion, who either failed to meet their outstanding challenger, or simply lost to them.

Secondly, there were sections of the media arguing for him to fight those "gimmes", as you call them.

When you spend 7+ years ducking them, yes, the argument becomes less about who was a halfway passable challenger and becomes one of "when the **** are you going to defend against the best?!?" Dempsey never did that so that scrutiny and that argument will haunt his legacy.
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OK, so it haunts his legacy.

You still can't have an era with only two contenders in it.

Who do you personally think was the third best out there?

I didnt make a big issue of it. In fact I dont make much of either of his wins over Norfolk or Carpentier, but those names carried weight and would have influenced someone like Rickard who was writing his own rankings. To the joe on the street Carpentier meant a lot and a win over him would have legitimized his ranking to some.
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Fair enough, but by that logic you can hardly dismiss Gibons's win over a past prime Miske.

Surely that would have raised Gibbons standing?
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Harold Johnson vs Jack Dempsey

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Harold Johnson vs Jack Dempsey

janitor VIP Member Full Member