Harry Greb at his Greatest.

Who was the hardest hitting puncher greb fought?

 

George Chip was probably the hardest-hitting middleweight of the post-Ketchel era. Kid Norfolk was a stiff puncher. As was Bill Brennan.

I would say those three.

 

Just looking at Grebs wins at Middleweight and Light heavyweight shows the greatness and the depth of the 160-190lb class of the era and Greb was one of the best of that rich era

From 160- to 175 Greb could beat anyone

 

Harry Grebe was probably the greatest fighter who ever lived.

 

This photo was published first in the afternoon edition of the July 2nd New York Daily News and again in the morning edition of the July 3rd issue. Note it says "yesterday" meaning July 1, the day before the fight.

[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/grebfilm_zps46278e0f.jpg[/url]

In a story published for the Pittsburgh Post by Regis Welsh on the day of the fight, written the day before the fight he states: "Primed, if he ever was, well within the required weight and more confident than ordinarily on the eve of a title battle, Harry Greb, middleweight champion, who goes on tomorrow with Mickey Walker in the feature of the Italian Hospital fund, once more brought gasps of surprise from the wise ones here this afternoon just as he completed his final light workout, weighing publicly before more than 200 fans, most of them Pittsburghers here a day in advance, Greb, under the careful eye of Philadelphia Jack O'Brien stepped on the scales and showed exactly 158 1/2 pounds, one and half pounds under the poundage he must make tomorrow afternoon at 2 o'clock in the office of the boxing commission." Harry Keck was there for the Pittsburgh Gazette-Times and reported the same weight the same day for his paper. Jack Lawrence of the New York Trib was at the same workout and reported Greb in "splendid condition"

The story is that Greb faked the drunk act to influence betting odds so he could bet on himself and clean up. There are numerous problems with this story and the idea that Greb would have needed to run around Central Park the day of the fight to lose weight: 1. Greb made weight just fine and was in fantastic shape for the fight. 2. Greb opened a favorite in the odds and stayed that way. The odds narrowed very slightly as the fight drew near (not uncommon) but not enough to pretend that Greb looked so horrible or drunk or was struggling making weight. Indeed the odds narrowed so slightly that it wouldnt have been worth wasting his time putting on such a show. 3. The New York Commission (which was as powerful as it ever would be at this time) was all over Greb as were the New York boxing writers. One sniff that Greb werent taking the fight seriously and they would have called him on the carpet. One word of this and the New York reporters would have savaged him in the press. None of this ever happened. By all reports Greb showed up in camp in good shape, trained hard and faithfully, and made weight comfortably. And frankly, what makes more sense that he actually trained hard and made weight for a fight that he performed stupendously for or that he struggled to make weight, barely trained or faked barely training, and then ran something like 12 miles the morning of the fight (ON A SAME DAY WEIGH IN) and then kicked the living hell out of one of the greatest fighters in history... I know the latter makes for a good story but thats all it is.

I

Burt has cribbed this little fantasy from James Fair's book. Fair injects himself into the story saying he was at the dinner with Greb and Thomas. Unfortunately for Fair his stories are easily researched and rarely prove true. At the time in question when this supposed meeting could have been possible Fair was about 18 or 19 years old, Thomas was at the height of her fame, and Greb was still struggling to be recongnized. Olive Thomas moved from New York city in 1913 when Greb was still a kid. She rose to fame much faster than he did and travelled in far different circles. The most likely time they could have crossed paths would have been 1917 and its extremely unlikely this happened. The ONLY source for this story is the totally unreliable James Fair. Now, Burt's original story on this from years ago which was disputed by myself and others was that his father had driven Thomas and Greb in a cab. He gave the date as being in the 1920s. Thomas was dead by the time Burt was saying his dad drove them. So yes, its bull**** and so is his story.

Ignorance is bliss. It doesnt make him wrong to repeatedly ape stories that are wrong and that hes been corrected on more than once? Sorry thistle but repeating an incorrect story that you believe to be true doesnt make it true.

And if you care to give an example of a source I exclude to twist the facts in my favor please do so. Maybe you can add all the sources that illustrate that Gilroy wasnt the most ducked fighter in history... :-(

The real question is why Burt would keep repeating this when he knows it isnt true and why then would he or anyone else act like hes got so much credibility and I dont when I post the actual facts. I mean honestly has anyone ever found me to say anything untrue in regards to Greb or be shy about posting my sources when questioned? On the other hand Burt has been called out on his woppers several times and has NEVER ONCE been able to back them up with anything tangible. I may not know everything about Greb, and never claimed to, but you can be damn sure if I post something I can back it up and wouldnt post something as ridiculous as Burt did without one iota of fact to support it.

Anytime Burt or Thistle or anyone else wants to come back with any substantive sources to refute anything Ive posted above they are more than welcome.

 

I think I will have to admit being out of my league here now. Everything you presented is well put and easy to follow, it puts Greb in prime shape and the information all verified. One matter I think we can leave open to speculation is the Greb-Thomas meeting and the date not out of the question since she passed just before 1921, but I feel abit uneasy saying anything now, again I've been proved out of my league here information wise. Exit stage right,,,,,

 

K, you love to call people liars and me in particular...It is you who has an ego so immense that you are never wrong...First of all sir, I never ever said that I read that info that said "Harry Greb and Olive Thomas once was seen in a restaurant, in James R Fair's
book "Give him to the Angels" though I once bought that thin book on Greb, loaned it out
and never received it back...I am sure I read that in an old Ring Magazine...I cannot
remember who was the writer. And I know that olive Thomas died in 1920,when Greb was already fighting a few years...I innocently read this info, and merely posted it on ESB
when I first started on this darn site. What the hell did I have to gain by lying that I read this info ? Who the hell on ESB knew who this long dead Broadway actress was ?
Any other decent writer as you are would not question my veracity, but would question my source...why was it impossible that a Harry Greb might have been in NY for a visit in
1918,1919 and early 1920 ,and secretly have a rendezvous with the erratic Olive Thomas ? After all Greb married would most likely wanted to avoid publicity...The point is sir I did not fib that I read this from a boxing magazine...Calling ME a liar is scurrilous...
2- Why call ME a liar that some boxing writer once commented that before the Greb/Walker bout in 1925 ,Greb to lose a few pounds had to run around Central Park twice to get under the 160 lb.weight ? It might have been a day or two before the bout
on July 2, 1925. If the writer was fibbing, and wrote about this incident, why should YOU
tar me as a liar sir ? And I am aware of the recently discovered Greb sparring film with Phil Jack O'Brien on top of the roof of his gym in NYC. I have a copy of that afternoon training session given to me by the man who discovered it in a college archive, which I treasure very much...So why am I a liar to relate what I read in a boxing article...?
3-And one more thing sir, I swear by what I hold sacred that I did see the dull bout between Ray Robinson and Bobby Dykes in a Coney Island Arena in the early 1950s.
I saw it and recalled that early evening, that it was the second time they fought, as I saw the first bout from Chicago on TV in 1950...I know It is not in the record books but see it
I did and WHY the heck would I lie about this...I posted this as my "Bermuda Triangle" mystery knowing that people would not believe me, but you in your righteousness call me a liar...Maybe sir coming from your holiness, I should regard your insults as a compliment. Remember sir, when people LIE it is to gain something...I had nothing to
gain...

 

Burt, you dont want to be called a liar but you are lying right now. When you first mentioned the Greb Thomas story you said your dad was driving them around in a cab. You said this happened in the 20s and someone else, not me, pointed out that Thomas had died BEFORE the time you said your dad was driving them around. I knew where that story came from, the Fair book, you just thought you could crib it and make it your own but Fairs story is bull**** and so was yours. It was another example of you getting caught trying to give yourself some credibility like pretending to be a 90 year old man who saw all of these guys etc and then getting busted on the Robinson-Dykes thing. Its happened several times here and elsewhere and Im sorry if I dont buy it. Its ridiculous. Now you want to come back here and bring that story back up and change it and pretend you didnt say your dad was driving them around in the mid 20s and act incredulous that I would dare call you a bullshitter. Whatever, other people can buy into your schtick I dont.

You exact words:

"Harry Greb was most likely the most amazing fighter who ever lived. Consider this
feat..
In 1925, [one year before Greb died] a shopworn, half blind Greb with about 295 tough bouts tackled the great prime Toy Bulldog Mickey Walker at MSG. Greb on the morning of the bout,was over the 160 pound MW limit...So what did he do, rather than call the bout off, Greb in a blazing July 2 sun raced around Central Park twice ,and with just a little
bit of orange punch came in the fight that evening at about 158 lbs, and still have the
stamina to whip the tar out of Mickey Walker, whilst finishing the 15th round very strong..
His like we will never see again... "

I merely pointed out that this was bull****. I think Ive proven pretty conclusively that this is the case. You got pissed off and for some reason brought up the Olive Thomas story, which was also proven pretty conclusively to be false, as some sort of proof that I can make mistakes (how I dont understand considering you are the one constantly getting caught with your pants down on these stories). The bottom line is you are right, I dont know everything about Greb, but I know a damn sight more than you pretend to know and when I post something on a public forum for the world to see I make sure I have my ducks in a row. I certainly dont post horse**** as if its my own and then back track and claim I read it somewhere in the 1930s. :-(

And for the last time, the whole Bobby Dykes-Ray Robinson thing is pathetic. I mean really pathetic. You and I both know that when you got busted on that you were trying to pretend that you saw THE Dykes-Robinson fight but didnt even have the basic facts straight enough to float that turd. As a means of covering your ass you concocted the idea that you saw Robinson, the most famous non heavyweight in the world, fight Bobby Dykes, a well known contender, in one of the largest cities in the world with the biggest media presence and somehow it went TOTALLY unnoticed... GTFO dont insult my intelligence. You can search ANY newspaper archive on the internet for Robinson and Dykes and the ONLY fight they had is the one that was filmed. Hell someone even pointed out (like Thomas' death happening before your story of Greb and her taking place) that the venue you supposedly saw this fight at was closed by the time you say you saw it there. But hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good story right. Just let me know when you or anyone else discovers documentation for this fight but dont expect me to hold my breath...

 

You are a scoundrel sir posting as God. For a start you say I am posing as a NINETY year old man. When have I ever given my age as ninety years old on ESB, YOU DARN liar...I NEVER mention my age but you lie that I did. Would you want to bet me any amount you wish that I am in my
80s and closing in to the 90s ? What do you wish to bet ? Any amount
you wish sir...What do you say??? I hope that if you make it to my age you have the ability to even post on any boxing site...So Mr NICE, what do you say about my age??? Any amount goes to charity...
I DID not read the Greb /Olive Thomas info in" Give Him to The Angels" sir but
in an old boxing magazine....I have not lied to anyone that I "read" that Harry Greb, to lose weight before his fight with Mickey Walker, ran around
Central Park twice and made the weight...A lie would be if I said I was THERE, which I wasn't, but merely posted what I read...Whether the writer was correct or not, let others decide...
And as for me watching the Ray Robinson/ Bobby Dykes fight #2, this is
what I saw, and I did not lie????
P.S. So is the bet on about my age ???
PPS I have been on ESB ever since I learned the computer and I have never been called a liar, and have to prove my advanced age...

 

I would have supposed this thread to be just another Captain Obvious droolfest over a fighter who doesn't need one…


To my surprise and enjoyment, there be fireworks here!

 

Youre lying your ass off. You said your dad drove Greb and Olive Thomas around in a cab in the mid 1920s. Whatever "Burt" you arent worth wasting my time on. Ive already illustrated you dont know half of what you try to post about. If people here want to believe your dumbass stories so be it.

 

You called me a liar about my age sir. It is you who are a liar and mean spirited to boot...But you conveniently obscure the lie about my true age, as if I am beholden to you that I made it so far...My DAD did drive a cab
in NY from about 1917 til 1962 and mentioned to my mom that he once picked up someone called Olive Thomas an actress...That is the first time I growing up heard her name, until years later when I read about a Greb/Thomas date in a restaurant....Was the writer correct.? Who knows, but I read it...Ok don't call me a liar sir for something I read. And don't
tell me when I was born...I won't waste my on you except to tell you,
you are a cad sir! atschatschatsch

 

You called me a liar about my age sir. It is you who are a liar and mean spirited to boot...But you conveniently obscure the lie about my true age, as if I am beholden to you that I made it so far...My DAD did drive a cab
in NY from about 1917 til 1962 and mentioned to my mom that he once picked up someone called Olive Thomas an actress...That is the first time I growing up heard her name, until years later when I read about a Greb/Thomas date in a restaurant....Was the writer correct.? Who knows, but I read it...Ok don't call me a liar sir for something I read. And don't
tell me when I was born...I won't waste my time on you except to tell you,
you are a cad sir! atschatschatsch