Harry Greb Confident He Can Beat Dempsey

You keep saying this, essentially blaming Kearns and Rickard for certain fights not happening, as if Dempsey was some powerless unthinking pawn who had no say in his career. But the fact is when Dempsey was unhappy with Kearns' management, he split with him, and when he thought he could get a better deal than with Rickard, he fought for other promoters, and there wasn't a whole lot either man could do about it.

But he refused every offer! Earning $100,000+ for fighting Greb in 1922 is better than earning nothing at all, right? What happened to fighters fighting instead of freezing out everybody for two whole years, followed by another three whole years, and milking the title? Presumably if he hadn't received an offer he couldn't refuse in 1923, he'd have had five straight years of fighting no one.

The vast majority of people around today don't even know who Dempsey was. Of those that do, some have him as their icon, and at least as many don't, for reasons which have been discussed ad nauseum, in his own time and since. Like I said, there's no another heavyweight champion in history guilty of such as egregious duck as Dempsey of Wills. Greb is just the cherry on the cake. Whenever Dempsey's name is mentioned, the name Harry inevitably follows.

 

Such a liar.

As mentioned Fleischer took it upon himself to end the banning of mixed race championship bouts in the hwt division. This is why you find a few articles during his 7 decades covering the sport that are skewed to push buttons in an effort to make the bout occur. To state Fleisher indeed felt Dempsey himself ducked or was afraid to fight Wills is an out and out lie. Again you cherry pick the very minority to try to try to convince it was a majority opinion. In fact it was not.

Chapter 56 of The idol of Fistania:

"In the meanwhile, Dempsey was beseeching Rickard to get him some work because he had become property poor and needed ready cash. Harry Wills was knocking at the champion's door. Rickard, however, wanted no part of the Brown Panther."

Note the final sentence. Does it say Dempsey Ducked or was afraid to fight Wills? No. As what has been the known history for 90 years. RICKARD did not want the bout to occur.

 

Another interesting tidbit in chapter 68 adds to the timeline:

"In the quiet of Jimmy Eagleton's parlor in his home at No. 252 West Fourteenth Street, New York City, Promoter Tex Rickard verbally signed Tunney to meet the unemployed Dempsey. The historic transaction took place fourteen months before the actual battle was fought in Philadelphia, the exact date being July 26, 1925--and Billy Gibson, the then challenger's manager, was conspicuous by his absence."

 

On July 16, 1925, at Hotel Alamac, New York City, Dempsey signed an agreement with Tex Rickard to fight Harry Wills in 1926, either in June or September, with Dempsey also agreeing to defend his title against an opponent Rickard was to pick for him, other than Wills, in September 1925, with names of Jack Renault, George Godfrey and Gene Tunney listed as possible opponents.

 

How did those "contracts" Dempsey signed to fight Wills work out? Because everyone at the time in 1922 laughed at the contract Dempsey signed which essentially said "I, Jack Dempsey, agree to fight Harry Wills for an amount of money TBA, at a time TBA, at a place TBA, for a promoter TBA, if I decide the offer is fair and if I decide the promoter is reputable." Wow. Some contract. Jesus, it had more holes in it than a salt shaker. Dempsey even admitted in his own biography it was a sham contract designed to avoid Wills.

While Dempsey as negotiating behind the scenes in July/August of 1925 to fight Tunney he made a big show of signing a contract with his close friend Floyd Fitzsimmons, to face Wills. This was done specifically because at this exact time the New York State Athletic Commission was in the process of banning and stripping Dempsey in that state and all states that shared a reciprocal agreement with them if Dempsey did not honor Wills' challenge. He had to do something to buy time, keep the commission off his back, and make it look like he was trying to fight Wills. He wasn't. That agreement as well had plenty of loopholes for him to get out of it and he did. When the contract fell through he repudiated Fitzsimmons publicly but privately hosted Fitzsimmons at his L.A. home for most of the following month. Sound like two guys who fell out over a contract dispute? Hardly. The entire thing was a set up and Dempsey's own business manager admitted it.

When it was officially announced, months later, that Dempsey and Tunney had signed to face one another the bout was banned in New York by the New York State Athletic Commission for Dempsey's continued refusal to honor Wills' challenge. They at least saw through his lies even if Dempsey1234 and Perry cant. This made Rickard, Tunney, and Dempsey furious. Rickard then had to negotiate the fight venue in Philadelphia on fairly short notice.

 

Again, written exactly when Dempsey and Fleischer shared an office and were business partners but making it clear that Wills deserved a shot and was denied one. A lot easier to blame a dead man than it is to blame a guy you have to work with everyday.

 

Don't call me a liar. Those were Fleischers exact words. Deal with it.

https://www.newspapers.com/image/70296388/?terms="nat+fleischer"+"harry+wills"

"Its significant that the same tactics which our own Jack Dempsey has pursued for several years in AVOIDING a fight with his negro nemesis, Harry Wills, were followed by one of Wills' own race, Jack Johnson in refusing to give Langford a chance at the heavyweight title." -Nat Fleischer, April 30, 1926


https://www.newspapers.com/image/43528077/?terms=fleischer+"harry+wills"

"The best man in the field at present is the negro, Harry Wills who would probably would knock out Dempsey and Carpentier. All the top notch heavyweights have barred Wills because the negro outclasses the field in cleverness and heavy hitting. He undoubtedly would score a knockout over Gibbons." -Nat Fleischer, 1921

 

If the fight happened, i don't think they beat 1919 dempsey..

I don't think 170 pounds greb & wills beat dempsey in 1919.

Sam langford say : if they fought (wills & dempsey) i put my money on the current champ.

Sam langford : he is (dempsey) the greatest hws that I ever saw.

Do you think greb & wills will beat toledo (1918) dempsey? Come on..

 

I don't think either beat them. But that is totally irrelevant.

 

I didn't think Buster Douglas would beat Mike Tyson. Holyfield either.

I didn't think Hasim Rahman had a chance in hell of beating Lewis.

Nobody thought Braddock would beat Baer.

Fight are fought in the ring for a reason.

The fact that Dempsey demolished an aging, fat, inactive, limited, slow, heavyweight is absolutely no comparison to either Wills or Greb. Wills would have beaten the hell out of Willard as well. I wouldn't put it past Greb to beat 1919 Willard either. Willard was never anything special, old, fat, and having one fight in the last 4 years is hardly going to sharpen his already mediocre skill set.

 

Here's Joe Vila's take on all that fuss in August 1925, from his column in NY Sun:

 

My understanding was this could only happen if the NY State commission agreed to the fight. They voted 2-1 against.

If Rickard was serious, he moves the fight to another location.

He didn't.