Harry Greb, do you really know him in the ring?

I have researched Greb enough to say the following:

His style. He was described as amateurish by some, a never-ending whirlwind of punches by others, a spinning top that didn't stay still, a hopping kangaroo in the ring, a man who threw all types of punches from all angles and yes he did foul a bit too. Gerb was all of these things and he had a style all his own! He fits the term "Protect yourself at all times ..both from legal and illegal blows. As such he is hard to compare to others. The kangaroo is the most interesting part as Greb would jump in and out clashing of heads on occasion ( which he was ready for since he initiated it ) and bury his opponent under a blizzard or punches. Few could keep Gerb's pace so he out-landed the other guy. Tunney who fought Greb five times and knew the man said " He was never in one spot for more than half a second. All my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus." - Gene Tunney.

If you can picture all of the above, which is mentioned several times by new articles, you have an idea of his style.


His speed. He was fast! How fast? Jack Johnson who wasn't known to give out compliments except for his own interests, called Greb the fastest fight he ever saw. Jack Dempsey concurred saying , "He is the fastest fighter I ever saw. Gerb was faster than Benny Leonard, the great lightweight! " We can see Leonard speed on film. Now Leonard wasn't the fastest man ever but he was a lightweight. Greb was a middleweight and light heavyweight. I think it safe to say that few middle weights were noticeably faster than Harry Greb.


His stamina. A true talent, Greb is described as moving on rubbery legs and throwing lots of punches. Exactly how many is unknown as I have not seen punch stats on him but it's safe to say more of his opponents, most of whom are on film. In the news reads I read which is a lot, he never punched himself out.


His chin. Only stopped twice in 298 matches.

One time it happened when Greb quit due to injury.

Greb hurt his arm in a mix-up at the beginning of the second round. He then made a desperate attempt to win the fight and outfought Graves in a couple of exchanges to win the round slightly. "When the gong sounded ending the round, Greb's left arm fell limp at his side..His face, screwed up, bore testimony to the pain he was suffering." He had broken the radius of his left arm and fought a full round in that condition. The next day, Greb's arm was splinted and he was showing the X-ray of the break around. The radius was completely fractured, "and the jagged ends were overlapping." - from the Pittsburgh Post

The other time happened in his 8th fight when he weighed 142 pounds and his opponent was 156.

Outside of these two matches Greb was never stopped in 296 matches. Some of the theses matches were vs Heavyweights, men over 200 pounds! If he hit the floor in these matches I am not aware of it. Now that's an all time chin.


His fouls. Now comes the part where some might feel I am going at him, but in reality I am just reporting what happened in the ring, testimonials by his opponents, cornerman and few words from Greb himself.

Some random stuff on it:

Greb lifted the middleweight title from Johnny Wilson in a roughhouser during which Referee Jack O'Sullivan stepped between these rugged practitioners and, glowering at Greb, asked him what he thought he was doing. "Gouging Johnny in the eye, can't you see?" Greb said haughtily. Satisfied with this explanation, O'Sullivan moved away, and the fighters returned to work


Part II Continued




Greb handed Tunney the only official loss of his career. It began with what some called a head butt that broke Tunney’s nose and ended, 15 rounds later, with Tunney barely on his feet. Tunney cornermen confirmed the foul in round one which led to a river of blood that stained Greb's trunks red.

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/03/b...shinsky.t.html[/url]

 

Part II

The second fight between Greb and Tunney was arranged for February 23, 1923, again at Madison Square Garden. And again, Tunney had bad luck in training coming down with the ‘flu. The Garden was a sell-out and there was no question of a postponement as far as Tunney was concerned.

That second battle was one of the most bitterly fought contests ever seen in New York. Greb was at his roaring best, using every trick and foul he had learned in the fight jungles across America.

After doing well for six rounds, Tunney felt the strength drain from his body. As if sensing his opponents weakness, Greb batted the New Yorker all over the ring. But his foul tactics did not escape referee Patsy Haley.



In the eighth round, Haley stopped the fight and told Harry to watch his step… or else. Greb promptly told Haley where he could go as they glared at each other, Tunney caught a welcome breather.

At the end of the twelfth, Haley threatened to disqualify Greb.

Harry turned to Red Mason, his then manager, and said, “Didya hear what this two bit ––– said about heaving me out’n the ring? I’ll turn him inside out if he tries it!”

At the end of fifteen vicious rounds, Tunney got the nod from the referee and one of the judges, making him American champ again. Then all hell broke loose in the Garden as the Pittsburgh and New York elements clashed.

More from the ref nearly DQing Greb. Researching Greb and the series with Tunney . In a fight vs another man, Greb got behind his man, and fried several foul punches.


Greb also, at least according to some observers, possessed a particular talent for getting away with underhanded tactics, mixing fouls in with the flurry of non-stop punches he launched at his opponents. At different times he was accused of utilizing headbutts, elbows, low blows, and thumbs to the eyes. It was also noted that he often intimidated referees by yelling at them when they attempted to break up the fighters, as he enjoyed mauling and wrestling on the inside, all the better to land shots south of the border or an inadvertent elbow to the larynx.

[url]https://www.thefightcity.com/fight-c...-city-wildc[/url]



The truth is some historians didn't consider Greb to be great not because he wasn't skilled but because he was dirty. I don't

At different times he was accused of headbutts, low blows and thumbs to the eyes? I guess you need more quotes from the opponent accusing him of the above...if they were bothered to be questioned and interviewed by the press.

As for the lack of DQ's speculation on my end, it was difficult for the gamblers to lay odds in the timeline, a reason why it was not often called in the 1918-1920's in the no-decision era of boxing. That is of course reasonable speculation but Greb fouling often in fights as reported by several others is not speculation.


A rough, anything-goes
fighter, Greb reached his
peak in the roaring 'twenties.
when prize-fighters,
ginsters, Jazz, flappers,
and bath-tub gin dominated
the scene.

To clinch his claims, he
met and disposed of the
highly - rated Gunboay
Smith and Tommy Gibbons.

For the benefit of the
first he initiated the eye gouging
tactics for which
he was to become notorious.

With his thumb overlapping
his glove, he hit
Smith with a solid right to
the face. The thumb sank
into Smith's left eye, paralyzing
the optic nerve,

~ Smith slipped to the
canvas ... in agony „ and was! —.
counted out, while the
elated Greb, confident he
had found a match-winning
tactic danced a victory-
jig in his corner.



Then he brought up his
head with a sickening thud
and broke Tunney's nose.
The following round he
repeated the maneuver,
and "opened a gash like a
second mouth over Tunney's left eye."

Mauling, slapping,
while he heeling and hitting
artistically in the breakaways, using his
thumbs and knees. At the end of 15 rounds he, was
acclaimed easy winner. That's how Greb officially beat Tunney.


Continued part III

 

There's a ton of news reads on Greb. Not the cases for Sullivan.

 

I'll load in part III later.

 

Well, the grand dandy of living historians has past. The man's research and collection is best described as boarder line unreal. This distinguished gentleman of fistiana just have have left " something " behind on Greb. Don't worry I am for sharing the history of boxing.

" To sit with elders of the gentle race
This world has seldom seen
They talk of days for which they sit and wait
All will be revealed " -Kashmir lyrics

 

Ivories were be cracked. Domino boxes shattered.