Harry Greb fighting in the Stanley Ketchel era

I dont really see the comparison.

Kelly
the Sullivan Twins
Sailor Burke

None of these guys were exceptional. They had talent but they also had as many losses/draws as they did wins.

Jim Barry was a heavyweight during the era.

Frank Klaus just barely makes the Ketchel era and wasnt yet in his prime at that point.

Jack BlackBurn fought bigger guys but he wasnt a middleweight either

I dont see the Ketchel era as being that deep at all outside of Langford, Ketchel, and Papke. Im not even sure Langford could still weigh 158 at this time.

I think the two biggest questions would be could Greb travel an unlimited amount of rounds in his usual style, and could one of those guys plant a knockout on him?

 

Bantamweight in the 70s would still be brilliant without those three Mexican's, just not the greatest/second greatest era for 118lbs ever as it stands.

As for the question, another head**** but seeing as how stylistically durable Greb seemingly was, and how durable he was in the physical sense, I still envision him being the best.

Without opening the thread I immediately thought 'Greb Vs Papke would be nauseatingly violent'. Glad to see you followed that up.

 

Rosenbloom was rated in the top 10 middles for the time scale I gave. Just a handful of middleweight fights? How many did Sullivan ,Langford or O Brien have in the period you stated? You forgot another guy Maxie fought less than a month before he fought Courtney, his name was Harry Greb, 2 weeks later he fought Jimmy Slattery,followed by Frank Moody, and Dave Shade . Thomas beat a green Klaus in December 09, well outside your time scale.His other win was over a welter [Melody,]and that was in 1906, the Klaus 1907 fight was a no dec. O Brien fights with Ketchel are again outside you self imposed time scale, the first was a no dec and for the second of their fights O Brien was washed up.

Durando was rated no 6, and no 4 respectively in the time scale I gave

The significance of the 158lbs limit is I dont think at least three of the names you gave could make it between 1907/8.

Where I am going is demonstrating that the middle weights between 1907-1908 were not strong in depth as you asserted, in fact it looks pretty shallow.

 

Quite a thought for sure :!:

 

Oh dear musn't question Mr McGrain, put your dummy back in, you're making a vagina of yourself.

 

If you dont want to have a discussion then dont ask hypotheticals and the get your panties in a twist when people start debating points with you.

 

I don't think its particularly weak ,neither do I think it is strong as you averred.
The very fact that Ketchel fought Papke 4 times ,Thomas 3 times ,and O Brien x2 tells me it is not deep. I dont want to grill you, I just didnt agree with you, and I now find myself in the unlikely company of Tywin /K in agreeing that if you cant take criticism , don't ****ing post.

I give credit where its due, see my post on your other thread , but imo you are wrong here.
Chill out ,you 're not WC Heinz ,or Jimmy Cannon yet.

 

What year is this? I was talking the collected years those three were around at 118, my bad.

 

I'll start here. I don't hold the Ketchel era in the same high regard as you do. There were a few good fighters, but the true avalanche of talent would be realized in the next generation (1910s). But I'm not dismissive of this era, either.

That being said, I think the Klaus fight gives us an indication of how badly Greb would have pasted Sullivan (who I think is more comparable to someone like Augie Ratner than to the great Mike Gibbons). Sullivan couldn't deal when Frank Klaus (and Papke, for that matter) put the pressure on him, his defense becoming nothing more than a tool for survival than for mounting much of an offense. Klaus' Pittsburgh comrade, Harry Greb, would have shown him twice the pressure Klaus did, with less power but with 10 times the speed and elusiveness. 10, 15 or 20 rounds, I would be surprised if Sullivan wins more than a few rounds vs the prime Greb.

Hugo Kelly? Good, but nothing special. A poor man's Gus Christie, with a lot less experience and even less durability. Prime Greb scores a shutout over any version of Kelly he fights.

NOW we're talking! :smoke Papke was a badass, more clever, evil and versatile than even Ketchel (he could BOX as well as slug) and I think he poses more of a problem for Greb than Ketchel ever could. Greb holds advantages in most departments, but that doesn't mean Papke doesn't make life difficult for him. But prime for prime I don't see Billy winning. Greb can take what Billy dishes out and would outwork him inside and out. Greb UD.



I'll address the final fight(s) in a few.