Harry Greb Footage

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the majority of boxing writers and self-appointed historians have a lukewarm IQ at best. Most of them are pure cliched schtick, Sugar being top of that heap. The rest are, by in large, hacky, embarrassingly poor writers who wouldn't know an original idea if it came up behind them and rodgered them roundly. From the inception of the boxing journalist, they have largely been lapdogs for promoters, complete herd animals following the salt lick of access into the small inner circle of the sport. Except for some few exceptions, what they say does not reflect what actually occurred in the ring.

 

Greb wasn't a great HW, his resume there pales in comparison to LHW and MW, he wasn't in consideration for my all time HW list, which only goes down to #25.

Greb was #47 in McGrain's well researched top 100 HWs of all time, though, he did good work in the division, especially for a man of his size.

 

Those "Boxing's best/greatest" lists were only ever intended as a means of selling compilations of (then-)rare fight films on VHS. The hosts never rated or even acknowledged any fighter not readily available on film that could be included in the compilation.

 

This demonstrably false. Im not sure you know what an actual newsreel is. Its very rare to find actual newsreel footage of boxing from Grebs era.

If you would like to prove me wrong Id love some examples but you listed guys like Wills and Firpo. There is no newsreel footage of an actual fight featuring Wills or Firpo that Im aware of. The few short clips of Wills come from theatrical releases, those are different than newsreels. Likewise the footage that exists of Firpo in actual boxing matches comes from theatrical releases theatrical films.

 

Thanks. I looked for some other opinions around the time of asking this couldn't find too many. Most the context is on his career as a whole target than just heavyweight.

 

That is simply not true.

First, they state at the beginning the Boxing Writers of America chose the fighters in the video.

Second, Curt Gowdy hosted The Way It Was series in the mid 70s. I used to watch it. And when HBO first came out in the 1970s, he was an HBO broadcaster, too.

And the two series I posted WERE MADE in the late 1970s, and they were LATER released on video in the mid 90s, like 15 years later. But they were made more than a decade earlier. They were HBO programs. Nobody thought to sell them on video until 15 years later.

Finally, if you actually watched the episodes I posted, they named 10 middleweights who were top in the division's history, and only showed video of THREE.

And when they got to light heavyweight, they named 13 and only showed video of three.

They could've included Greb in multiple categories, whether they had film or not. Most of the fighters they named in the video they didn't show video for.

But Greb wasn't included at all.

I know this may be a JOLT to some of you. But I'm telling you, Greb wasn't included in a lot of all-time lists back then.

He just wasn't.

 

Who cares? We have the record showing who he beat and we have films of many of those opponents and we know what they thought of him. Nobody cares what some so called "experts" think. As time has went on even more has come out about Greb and the man was simply a beast.

 

Bill Gallo is a Hall of Famer. He was president of the Boxing Writers at the time of the video. He was widely respected by everyone in journalism and the sport, by fighters and trainers as well.

He was no "cliche."

He discusses in the video the differences of opinion between older and younger writers when making their choices regarding who made the list, particularly regarding the lightweights and Benny Leonard or Duran.

Nobody brought up Greb in the video, and 20 different middleweights and light heavyweights were named or discussed. And they only included video of six from those two divisions.

The Greb praise that he's the best ever or at the top is relatively new (by that I mean this century).

 

Nothing has COME OUT.

Greb didn't fight after the video was made. His record didn't change.

No video footage of him fighting showing off his dazzling skills has emerged.

What "changed" is the people who saw him and didn't rate him as the best ever died.

And people WHO STILL HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM fight now think he was something people at the time didn't.

 

What's funny is it's been 45 years since the video (with Gowdy, Gallo and Merchant) was actually filmed, and there have been 45 years of middleweight and light heavyweight fighters who fought AFTER the video was made ... and Greb didn't make the top 20 middles or light heavys as of 1980 ...

But 45 years later, having not fought at all, Greb has somehow now (in the minds of a lot of you) LEAPT ahead of not only everyone he was behind then ... but he's now ahead of everyone who has come along since then, too.

For someone who has been a fan since the 1970s, that's quite a bit of WHIPLASH.

I've never seen opinions change so dramatically when absolutely NOTHING new about the fighters' record or video evidence has come out.

 

The Great Decasualization

 

In a March 1975 issue of ring magazine they had Greb as their #3 MW in their listing of greatest fighters of all time division by division .. in a May 1994 issue they still had him #3 in a revised list... in a January 2001 issue they had him #1.. how is that a new phenomenon?

In 2002 Ring complied their list of the 80 best fighters of the last 80 years & had Greb #7... They have consistently ranked Greb highly right through the 20th century & into the 21st..

You can pull up some obscure YT video & act like they represent the consensus of the second half of the 20th century all you like but they mean nothing in the grander scheme.. Countless great fighters, writers & historians sing Grebs praises & have done since the 20s.. that you don't see it in your imaginary collection of 70s & 80s wank mags means fk all to most of us.. most of those mags aren't digitally archived so its hard to verify just how highly he was regarded within them.. but so what if he wasn't? Magazines are generally just a few blokes in an office .. They aren't billy Billy Conn, Jack Dempsey , Gene Tunney or Sam Langford.. those fellas knew what they were talking about.. go look up what they said about him..

His record speaks for itself & his placing in terms of all time has generally been consistently high. Fact.

 

On another occasion Arcel commented that Duran "might know more about fighting than I do. I rank him with Sugar Ray Robinson and Harry Greb-naturals who never had to be taught a thing about how to box."

 

Bill Gallo drew cartoons for a living & had Pac in his top 3 boxers of all time for beating Margarito LMAO... why are u citing him.. a cartoonist .. & not acknowledging the praise by numerous hall of fame FIGHTERS on Greb? Why don't u actually look at the incredible depth of Grebs record itself too? No.. Let's listen to a cartoonist not mention him on one video from the 80s.. that's your argument? LOL.. You mentioned the HOF too.. you must think it has merit then.. Greb beat more HOFers than anyone ever.. why wouldn't that impress you? You're clearly enamored by Gallos induction.. so whats the blockage with HOFer Greb & all those fellow HOFers speaking about him then? Go back to the general & come back when you're out of nappies.. this isn't for u.. ffs .. what a joke

 

Len and John, those quotes and facts are ok, but not next to some guy on the internet's opinion....lol.