Harry Greb: GOAT?

So despite beating legions of all-time greats, coming in all styles and sizes, including wins over some of the greatest LHWs of all-time, your concern is going 1-2 in a series he arguably should be 3-0 in the twilight of his career?

 

He's got as strong a case as anyone, but I don't think there's any clear answer.

 

Myth.

 

Never happened.

 

He has the best record in boxing so in a p4p list easily top 3. H2h is hard to tell sense there’s no footage of him.

 

This

 

I'll take your word for it, and there were no witnesses anyways

 

In my opinion no. Here's why. I know what old sports writers and
some coaches/trainers have wrote of Greb's greatness , but
their are too many" yeah but's" for me.
1st. How many of those writers got to see Ray Robinson? Duran? or Ali.
2nd. lack of video on him and most of his opposition .
Video is most important to me when trying to get a feel for a fighter,
especially if one know what to look for. Prime example
Joe Louis. Anyone honest with themselves and don't
have blinders on know his competition level wasn't the best.
But anyone that actually have watched him fight, also
should know that he's probably the most technical proficient
heavyweight in history. His technique is far superior to any
heavyweight in history. It's the reason he could just devastate opponents
from distance or inside, with any hand. Speed or Power,
a fighter in general has have one or the other, Louis had both.
He's one of the few fighters that could ko opponent's
with a punch that travelled a little more than one foot.
It's the reason Louis would be a serious threat to any heavy
in history. All this information is gained by actually watching him fight.
It's easy to see .
Can't say the same for Greb, or any fighter with little to no film on
them in actual combat.
3rd. Was Greb the best of his era? I know he was one of the few willing to
fight the best black fighters of the era but
How many referee's judges , sport reporters and writers shaded their opinions for him
because of the color line?
I know he fought Flowers, he lost to him twice, split dec. But if Flowers
got a split dec during those times, would've have been a unanimous
dec the last 40-50 yrs?
All of these questions could be answered realistically if their was
sufficient film on him and almost all the fighters from that era.
Unfortunately theirs not.
So basically were stuck with words written by men could've been dead
by the time Robinson and Ali came along, probably dead by the time Duran
Hagler, Hearns ,Leonard, Sanchez, Gomez, Arguello and many others came along.
Long dead by the time Whitaker, Chavez, Jones Jr, Mayweather Jr. Holyfield
came along.

 

Well ,when your name can be mentioned with Sugar Ray Robinson and Sam Langford as the pound for pound king it's accolades enough for me . Since I've never seen Greb I'll stick with Robinson as #1 .

 

We can agree, and he is either 1st , 2nd or 3rd depending were you rate Langford and SRR. Keep well.

 

I don't find this criticism compelling to be honest.

1. Why should we care that the writers didn't see Ali or SRR? Greb still beat the best fighters of his era and his career was more dominant than anything we've seen since.

2. We do have footage of Greb's best opponents:

Gene Tunney
Mickey Walker
Tommy Loughran
Mike Gibbons
Tommy Gibbons
Kid Norfolk
Mike McTigue

...to name a few. Most of them look fantastic on the tape, so we can only expect that Greb had to be very, very good.

3. Greb was inarguably the best fighter of his era. He fought everyone he could at his weight and he proved his superiority over anyone. You mentioned Tiger Flowers fights, but Greb was half-blind at this point, way past his prime. The sheer fact that he was competitive in this series only proves how special he was.

4. Greb was a MW who competed with HWs and there was a serious talk about Greb vs Dempsey fight. It seems that there was no clear favorite in this potential fight and I'm sure Jack would admit that he didn't want to risk his title in this fight. Again, Dempsey looks very good on the tape.

 

You should know that Boston Tom McMustache and Harry Groat (alias Harry Greb) had a showdown in the neutral venue of the Welsh valleys. Tom was around 162lbs (his best weight, so I have heard) for this one and Greb was a lean, uncastrated 310lbs. Despite his best charges, Groat was viciously KOd and skinned by McMustache with some sweeping right hands in the 13th round. McMustache to this day remains a true legend of Boxing.

I hope footage of the legendary McMustache is revealed one day. Billy Pickles was also in the works to fight Greb in their proposed rematch, but it never happened due to 'purse disputes'. In my humble opinion Greb ducked this fight in favour of easier alternatives, due to the embarrassing fashion of defeat in their first bout.

 

When one writes, "best of all times" Or The "Greatest. Of. ALL. Times". " The Goat". The poster didn't write anything about a specific era, or Greb' s specific era.
They are suggesting he was the best that's laced them on under the Queensbury Rules.
Was he more "dominate "than Ray Robinson who was 90-1 at one point of his career ?
How about Henry Armstrong who won four championships in different weight classes when it actually ment something?
The film we have of some of the fighters you named that he defeated, I saw them , but I'm not as impressed with them as you obviously are.
I don't believe their is enough film evidence on him IN MY OPINION to think he was the G.O.A.T.
And your absolute right when you wrote writers of that era didn't see Ray Robinson or Ali.
But that's the problem, they didn't see them.
And you should care when throwing around the G.O.A.T title.
For instance, I can reasonably assume based on film study, Ray Robinson probably would beat Hagler or Monzon, theirs enough film on those 3 men to make a reasonable assumption of this opinion.
There's nothing other than what's written by long dead men on the greatness of Greb. He more than likely was the greatest of his era, too many different resources have made that comment for it to be just denied.
But the "G.O.A.T? With all the greatness that came after he was long dead. Fighters we can actually study on film? In my opinion its a disservice to some of the greats that came along after him. But that's one man's opinion.