Harry Greb: GOAT?

He may be the only guy that can qualify the legitimacy of the specific articles ... I'm fairly certain he'd know which sources are more legit than others .. it is an interesting couple of articles and do give a different accounting to the sessions.

 

You left out if The Legendary Grebster existed in the first place which changes the whole dynamic of the conversation.

 

Jake Lamotta + Mickey Walker not even considered?

 

I think the reason for this is that the tale of Greb outclassing Dempsey in sparring is mostly based on reports of the first of their three sparring sessions during Dempsey's training for the Miske fight. Most reports from that day have Greb getting the best of it (that piece by Frank Menke which describes Dempsey outboxing him is a bit of an outlier).

It should be remembered that Greb was the second of three sparring partners Dempsey worked with that day, and the reports also indicate that he was holding back on his heaviest punches.

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The second session was different. Possibly stung by the reports from the previous day, Dempsey sparred with Greb first, and the session was a genuine brawl. Although Greb handed back plenty in return, most observers felt that Dempsey's body punching gave him the advantage.

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lamotta lol

 

Imo, no win resume in history is as great and deep as Greb's. Not Walker's and most certainly not LaMotta's.

 

Lol? Why not he was one hell of a fighter who took on anyone

You want more laughs ill throw in Mathew Saad Muhammad to be considered for #1 if Greb is #1.His road the title was just as tough and fought dangerous men consistently.Sparred Muhammad Ali most probably

 

Fritzie Zivic
Jose Basora
Lloyd Marshall
Bert Lytell
Tommy Bell
Holman Williams
Tommy Yarosz
Irish Bob Murphy

Just a few Lamotta opponents and thats inside the ring

 

Boxrec have him @13 on their all time list, "Lol"s @#4 Jimmy McClarnin @BCS8

Can you or one of the other 19 that voted YES give me his 10 greatest victories? There must be plenty to choose from

 

I voted "no". Whilst I think Greb has the best & deepest win resume in history, on balance I have SRR at #1 & Greb at #2, though I can see them the other way around.

However, I'll take a stab at his top 40 x victories, as whilst his top 10 is mightily impressive, it doesn't give an indication of his astonishing depth. The ordering is very rough off of my head, listed for speed, but it should be sufficient to give an indication of the depth & quality of Greb's win resume:

1) The bigger Tunney, my #3 all time @ LHW, #19 @ HW & #21 p4p
2-3)The bigger Tommy Gibbons x 2, a top 40 p4p
4-7) The bigger Tommy Loughran x 4, my #9 @ LHW
8) Mike Gibbons, my #6 @ MW
9) Mickey Walker, my #12 p4p
10-11) Jack Dillon x 2, arguably top 50 p4p
12-13) Willie Meehan x 2, in the 2nd fight Meehan, who had beaten Jack Dempsey, Sam Langford & Jeff Smith in his previous 5 fights, outweighed Greb by a whopping 32.5lbs
14-17) Bill Brennan x 4, including a fight where Greb was outweighed by 26lbs (no weights listed for their fight the previous month)
18) Kid Norfolk, my #16 @ LHW
19) Billy Miske, who outweighed Greb by 19lbs
20) Maxie Rosenbloom, future LHW champion & my #22 LHW
21) Tiger Flowers, my #19 at MW
22) Jimmy Slattery
23-24) Future LHW world champion Mike McTigue x 2
25-27) LHW Jimmy Delaney x 3
28-33) Jeff Smith x 6
34-36) MW world champion Johnny Wilson x 2
37) Borderline LHW ATG Battling Levinsky (would be higher, but was only a 6-round contest)
38-40) Leo Houck

LaMotta's top 20, again without much thought as the ordering, would go something like:

1) Smaller SRR, who also beat him x 5
2) Past prime Holman Williams in a debatable decision the crowd boo'd
3) MW world champion Marcel Cerdan
4) Bert Lytell SD, debatable
5) Robert Villemain SD, debatable
6) Lauren Dauthuille
7) Bob Satterfield
8-10) Natural WW Fritzie Zivic
11) Tiberio Mitri
12-13) Jose Basora
14-16) Natural WW Tommy Bell
17) Tony Janiro
18) Jackie Wilson
19) Tommy Yarosz (that's Tommy, not Teddy)
20) Joey DeJohn

Based on my rough ordering, Greb's 40th best win is better than LaMotta's 14th.

Greb's 20th best win is better than LaMotta's 5th & whilst Roosenbloom was pre-prime, it's comparable to LaMotta's 3rd best. If Holman Williams had gotten the nod, it'd be comparable with Jake's 2nd best win.

LaMotta's resume is propotionate to Greb's in quality & depth, to roughly the same scale that the Earth is in size to Jupiter.

 

Without getting snarky, LaMotta lost to a few too many nobodies for me to entertain the idea of him being the GOAT.

 

Hi Buddy.
I will try to be as kind as time will allow, to posit LaMotta as the GOAT ( which I think is what you are saying ) seems really out of touch with reality, I don't know how long you have been a boxing fan, your post would suggest not that long, no put down intended, if that is the case then I can see how you might see LaMotta as a really great fighter, and also if you are not very well educated on Greb, no disgrace, then I will throw you a bone, if on the other hand you are steeped in the history of boxing then I find your assertion that LaMotta as the best of all time a tad confusing, Walker was not that much wide of the mark , prob in most pundits top 10, or thereabouts, but like I say, you pays your money, and takes your pick, keep well amigo, chat soon.

 

Hi Buddy.
A well researched list of his most noteworthy opponent's, salutations .
You could have thrown in for good measure Chuck Wiggins, a aboutsolute nutcase of a fighter, totally fearless, he loved nothing better than a brawl with anyone, also like our industrious subject, not too bothered about rules, for the birds he would say, a mean, tough, belligerent,
HW who bared no one, when he wasn't terrifying ( of course not Harry ) the leading fighters of his era, he would turn his attention to the local cops, many a batton broken over Chuks head methinks, a rough house duo, and no mistake.
stay safe buddy.

 

Hi Mike,

Thank you.

Agreed, Wiggins would have been a fine inclusion too. As would Al McCoy x 2, Clay Turner x 4, George Chip x 2, Buck Crouse, Eddie McGoorty, Jack Blackburn, Bryan Downey, Augie Ratnor, Lou Bagash, Gus Christie & Soldier Bartfield x 3.

I've got Greb #1 in both the 1910s & 1920s, based solely on fights that occured in those respective decades. I think he'd have a case for the deepest resume in boxing history even if we limited it either just fights he had in the 1910s or fights that were only contested in the 1920s.

His resume is absurd.

 

Great stuff. Puts the entire Dempsey Greb story in another light.