Harry Greb, head to head vs. the great middleweights

Most people tend to agree that Harry Greb belongs somewhere on the pound for pound list. I rank him in the top two or three. But, let's actually try to break down some of these all-time great middleweight fights, like.....

Greb vs. Hagler
Greb vs. Hopkins
Greb vs. Robinson (at middleweight of course, not pound for pound)
Greb vs. Ketchel
Greb vs. Langford (at middleweight)
Greb vs. Any great middleweight that you can think of.

I personally think Greb beats a lot of, if not all of the people that I mentioned. I rank Sugar Ray Robinson #1 on my pound for pound list, but at middleweight, The Pittsburgh Windmill may have been able to beat Sugar Ray. His swarming style caught up to a lot of great fighters in his day.

Greb vs. Ketchel would have been a brutal war. I think Greb's speed and seemingly endless stamina would have won the fight. Either way, a fight between those two = explosion!

Greb vs. Hagler would have also been an exciting showdown. Actually, to call a Greb-Hagler fight merely exciting, would be an understatement. Both of those men possessed enormous passion. I think Greb's non-stop attack would have eventually served him well vs. Hagler. Let's say the fight is scheduled for fifteen rounds. I think Hagler's short, effective punches would serve him fairly well, early. I say fairly well, because I think Greb's awkward style would be trouble for Hagler throughout the fight. I could see Hagler winning some rounds with his accurate shots, but Greb's incredible speed and unique style would prevail. At least, that's my opinion.

Greb vs. Hopkins. Now that would be an interesting fight. Maybe not the most fan-friendly of bouts, but interesting. I think B-Hop would actually give Greb a lot of trouble. Greb would be chasing Hopkins for most of the night. I think Greb would do better latter in the fight when Hopkins slows down a bit, and Greb is still going strong. I could see this one being close. If you watch the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight, you see a Bernard Hopkins who couldn't quite keep up with Joe's amazing work rate. Now, I know that Calzaghe fought Hopkins at light heavyweight and not middleweight, but I think you get my point. In my opinion, Greb's work rate was second to none in terms of prize fighters. I would pick Greb to win a close decision.

Greb vs. Langford is a bout that I often wonder about. There is very little footage of Sam Langford and no known fight footage of Harry Greb. Langford could knock a horse out with one shot, but Greb's jaw was like diamond. From my research of these two fighters, I would pick Greb to win. I have already mentioned some of the great qualities that Greb possessed, i.e., speed, awkward style, stamina, granite chin, etc. I think Greb would use those great tools to win the fight.

Ok, I have stated my claim. You may not agree with me and that's fine. I am open-minded and ready to read what some other fans of the greatest sport in the world have to offer. And for those of you who say that one can't truly rate Greb because there is no known fight footage on him. I say to those people, study and study hard. Examine Greb's record from top to bottom. Read the newspaper reports on his many no decision fights. Then take a look at his opponent's records and accomplishments. There is footage on a lot of the great fighters that Greb beat. Check out the footage on those guys and keep in mind that Harry Greb not only beat them, but beat them thoroughly.

 

Well, it's all a matter of opinion anyway. I have researched Greb a lot and also the fighter's styles that he beat. That is how I draw my conclusions. I am basically just wondering what other people think. The people who do read about Harry Greb must also wonder. Share your thoughts with me, even if they differ from mine.

 

Thanks Bummy! At least someone is responding to my thread. I know I got a bit carried away with the length of it, but I am a big fan of Greb and his many amazing accomplishments.

 

Thanks again, Burt. I can't say for sure who would win the Greb-Langford or Greb-Ketchel fights, but they would be wonderful to see. I would favor Greb over anyone at middleweight. And if a Ketchel or Langford were able to get by Greb the first time, look out guys for the rematch. If Gred didn't get you the first time, chances are you are doomed the second one. And if not doomed then you just might lose a close decision. Either way, it seems like Greb always found a way to beat a guy at least once.

 

Thank you, Burt. That is interesting that Mr. Goldstein had that to say. I really enjoy reading comments from people who saw Greb fight. Ruby Goldstein is a good example. It is really unfortunate that so many discount Greb's accomplishments because of the no fight film aspect. Even better than reading what the people who watched Greb fight have written, is reading what the people who fought him said. Like Gene Tunney....


"He was never in one spot for more than half a second, all my punches were aimed and timed properly but they always wound up hitting empty air. He'd jump in and out, slamming me with a left and whirling me around with his right or the other way around. My arms were plastered with leather and although I jabbed, hooked and crossed, it was like fighting an octopus."
-- Gene Tunney

People sometimes think that just because Greb was a swarmer that he wasn't so good defensively. Well, that is just wrong.

Even Jack Dempsey who sparred with Greb had this to say...

"The fastest fighter I ever saw. Hell. Greb is faster than Benny Leonard."
-- Jack Dempsey

 

Hi, Mr. Bill. Thanks for adding your two cents to my thread. I really like to read what other people have to say about this topic. I tend to disagree with you though on a couple of points.

1. It is true that Greb was tough and crude, but we can't say that he was less conditioned than B-Hop and Hagler. Remember, this is The Human Windmill here. The Perpetual Motion Machine. He fought every minute. Non-stop attack. He was conditioned. Hopkins sometimes fights just a few shots of a round. I do agree in one sense, and that is I think Hopkins would give Greb more trouble than the others that I mentioned.

2. Sugar Ray Robinson is #1 p4p, in my view, but he was the greatest welterweight of all time, not the greatest middleweight. I think at middleweight, especially before his first retirement, that he was great and great indeed. But, I think Greb's fast, non-stop, awkward attack would catch up with Robinson. Robinson was not at his absolute peak at middleweight. I could see those two guys splitting some wins and losses if they fought multiple times. I am not saying that I am 100% sure that I am correct, but that is how I feel.

3. I am curious as to why you say Greb would be properly matched against the likes of Ketchel, Walker, Fullmer and LaMotta. So he would do ok against some old school white fighters, but not against some modern day black fighters? I am not asking that to be a smart-*ss, but I read some idiots who post there ideas about how black fighters are better than white fighters. This is nonsense. At one time Irish fighters were the top guys, them came jewish fighters. Then there was a great number of Italian fighters. Of course there were good fighters of all races in those times, but as a whole, sometimes one nationality seems to do better. For the longest time, black heavyweight reigned at the top. Now, it is almost all white, eastern europeans. Now, I may have typed all of this for no reason, because that may not be your thinking at all. That's why I made it a point to mention that I am not being sarcastic. I was just wondering.

Anyway, thanks again for your post. I hope to here back from you.

 

Yes sir, I have read that report. Some say that it may have been a myth, but it sounds believable to me. If that is true, it is quite a compliment coming from Jack Johnson. Johnson was in there with Sam Langford, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns and many other quick, smaller men.

 

I have read numerous reports of Greb's drinking and women chasing, but have also read reports about how that is all blown out of proportion. I do recall reading that Greb smoked, but don't remember where I read it. I have never seen a picture of Greb with a cigar or cigarette, so I'm not sure that this is true. I do believe that Greb was in great condition for most of his fights, with the exception of when he was injured. He fought so often that he rarely had time to heal. As far as his training and conditioning are concerned, anyone who fought and won that often, had to be in shape.