Harry Greb top 40 Middleweight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by True Writer, Oct 24, 2007.


  1. Jbuz

    Jbuz Belt folder Full Member

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    Cmon don't tell me that didn't make you laugh. You go from this KO machine, landing precise right hands to KO some great fighters, to this skinny guy prancing around like a fairy on ecstacy.... with Eye of the Tiger playing. :rofl
     
  2. True Writer

    True Writer Active Member Full Member

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    McGrain - Greb beat more ATG than my list combined - that is nonsense.

    Do you know how many black fighters Greb faced in 300ish fights? Not many, but Tiger Flowers was one and Flowers beat him twice (but probably 3 times reading between the lines). In those days white fighters did not fight black fighters for many reasons including race riots when they lost. The truth is that the best white fighters where kept away from black.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Seen it before, cracked smile right enough.
     
  4. True Writer

    True Writer Active Member Full Member

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    It is one of the funniest things I have ever seen! Anyone would think it was a joke! Hearns would destroy Greb .
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Don't really know what to say to you buddy, apart from "no it isn't".


    He didn't fight many. What? He fought Flowers who had his number and beat him at the end (and might have been a good pick peak for peak) and he fought and beat ATG Kid Norfolk too. Which great black fighters should Greb have entertained? Siki? It pretty obvious to anyone who does some digging who's fault it was that fight never happened.

    He fought and beat some of the best.

    But I don't think I like where this conversation is going. I'm certainly not going to pick every black fighter since to beat Greb because racism was rife at the time.

    If that's what you argument is boiling down to, shame.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What a great job you're doing of proving it.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Kid Norfolk was easily the best black fighter at light heavyweight when Greb beat him. I could also find some reports that suggest that he won all three fights against Flowers.

    At the end of the day though there was no black fighter who could hold a candle to Gene Tunney at his weight or Mickey Walker for that matter.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Then why didnt Gene Tunney destroy him?

    Would you even give Hearns a chance against Gene Tunney?
     
  9. True Writer

    True Writer Active Member Full Member

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    I am just pointing out the obvious and I agree it is an unpleasent conversation but thats life. I am not saying every black fighter would beat him - not at all. But when you don't fight any black fighters then surely it is only right to ask the question. Someone like Cooney would have been a great HW had black fighters not been able to fight him. At the end of the day most people would admit that at the higher weights black fighters have been dominant - that is a fact.

    When you boil it down; you can't watch any of his fights, he fought very few black fighters - how can you rate him as the greatest middle weight?
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    OK, that's fair enough. Sorry if I was a bit short, but every now and again you get a guy on here who's just all about race and it's unpleasant to say the least.

    But as has been pointed out to you Greb DID fight great black fighters, two of the greatest ever at and around the weight (I consider both top 20 fighters for their respective weight divisions). I'll ask you again - which black fighters should Greb have entertained? How does the fact that he didn't fight them impact his legacy.

    I actually do not have him at #1 for this weight. I agree that not being able to see him fight is problematic - a challenge.

    But I am not prepared to throw out the greatest resume in boxing history on these grounds.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  12. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Geniune question: who thought Greb won their first fight in 1926? I've always read that the vast majority thought Flowers won. The return later in the year was the big controversy.


    ps. The writer from Harry's local paper or a Greb biographer doesn't count. :good
     
  13. True Writer

    True Writer Active Member Full Member

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    He does have a great resume and no one can take that from him. But when that resume is so old and, due to its time racist, then I do not believe you can rank him so highly. For example his fights with Flowers seemed close but was due to the fact that it was the 20's? Also should he/could he have fought more black fighters probably yes, but this was not his fault it was the age he fought in (Jack Dempsey too).

    I was interested in Greb because he is always in th top 5 middles but next to no footage can be found. I simply can't believe that he could have mixed it with the likes of Hearns, if you compare them physically its almost funny.
     
  14. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The disadvantage Greb has is that like Tony Ayala, there is very little footage of him except for sparring but unlike Ayala, had a full career to his credit with legendary achievements and nearly 300 fights.

    I really wasn't impressed with the footage of Greb's muscles-Tommy's muscles stood out more once he put on some weight. Hagler also looked unimpressive in sparring even in his prime.

    I really can't tell much from the sparring so all I can say is he looked crude- like Mustafa Hamsho but harder to hit, telegraphs his right hand, not much of a jab while Hagler possessed a hard accurate jab, probably had the better tools and much better technical fighter in every way--and with no shortage of stamina. Only Hagler or Jones or Robinson could keep up the pace with Greb.

    My question is how effective would Greb be without the use of illegal tactics? Would he find himself disqualified?
     
  15. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    I've just had a peak at Boxrec. Funny how they quote the New York Times more than any other paper in many (probably 'most') cases, yet fail to do so concerning the Greb-Flowers fight. Probably because the NYT had Flowers winning handily. :huh