Harry Greb top 40 Middleweight?

They fought three times in total.

In the first encounter some partisan papers had Greb wining but the majority favoured Flowers. Greb himself also said that Flowers won. Despite this boxrec and other sources list it as a win for Greb. No title was on the line.

In the second fight where the title pased to Flowers most observers seemed to think that Greb deserved thhe nod.

In the third encounter the papers seem to be split and you get the idea that it was too close to call.

So my take is that Flowers won the first, Greb won the second and the third was a Hopkins Taylor type afair with Flowers perhaps edging it.

 

Fair enough. But he'd definitely met his match (at that point in his career anyway). The New York Times wrote that most in attendance for the first world title fight had Flowers winning clearly- so someone's telling fibs.

 

Not necisarily. If the black fighter had the right conections the system could work for him.

When Joe Humphreys announced Flowers as the winner by split decision with the judges, but not the referee, voting for him, the fans stormed the ring, littering it with bottles, hats, paper and everything they could find to throw in protest.

Jim Crowley, the referee, walked over to Greb saying “Tough, Harry, a tough one to lose. It was your fight.” Gene Tunney who watched the affair said, “Harry won by a substantial margin. It was an unjust decision.” William Muldoon also said Greb had won, adding, “but the decision will stand. If we (The New York Athletic Commission) reversed it, the Negro people might think they were being discriminated against.”

 

That was the final meeting though wasn't it?

 

Yes

 

I dont know why you guys are digging on the training footage, the training footage was NO differnt than any other training footage of THAT era. You guys should relly see George Carp or Jack Dempsey shadow box, they look goofy going in circles like that, Carp is even MORE off balace than Greb in his training scene section in the Dempsey fight.

As for the sparing with O Brain, he was a retire boxer(He era was the 1900's for criss stakes) and they were doing a little FREIDLY sparing. Greb did not want to hurt the old man. That would be like today, say Taylor or even VK going a FEW freindly sparing rounds with Hagler or Fraizer. Jack was reaching his 50's at the time.

Speaking of which I do have the footage of Dempsey sparing with Jack McAuliffe, and Dempsey look FAR from the killer of the Willard and Firpo fights. Hell McAuliffe and Dempsey were more SLAPPING than anything. Yet we hardly judge Dempsey on his freindly sparing with McAuliffe do we?? They were playing around.

 

beating maybe.....but destroying?? i think u may be going a bit overboard here

 

He'd KO just about everyone with those hooks.

 

I don't know about top 40 head-to-head since the footage is so minimal, but going by resume and achievements (far more important in assessing a fighter's all-time standing), he's more like a top 1 MW.

 

Put it this way.

Whether he won or lost he would not look prety at the end of it.