Harry Greb vs Floyd Mayweather jr jr jr

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by gregluland, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    So you’re saying he didn’t fight black fighters during his prime years? That’s what appears to have happened when I look at his record, and you seem to be backing it up.

    Btw your bias is showing in the way you’re characterizing Floyd’s career. He fought a multitude of pressure fighters and beat them all.
     
  2. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Member Full Member

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    You originally asked if Greb fought relevant black fighters, which he undeniably did. Now you're criticizing him for not fighting them when he was in his prime ( which is false, the first Norfolk fight is most likely what ended his prime )? As if him fighting Flowers at the end of his career and Blackburn when he was a novice is a bad thing now ? That doesn't make any sense. It's not as if there was another black fighter around his weight class to fight. Was a natural middleweight supposed to fight Harry Wills to impress you ?
    I'm not characterizing Floyd's whole career, just his stylistic disadvantage here. Maidana and Castillo are the closest thing to Greb that Floyd fought aside from a past it, slower and more gunshy version of Pacquiao. That multitude of pressure fighters you mention were either mediocre or just boxer punchers trying and failing to apply correct pressure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
  3. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    If he didn’t fight black fighters when he was in his prime, it means he avoided them at the point in his career when he had the most options. That’s why that matters.

    As for for Greb resembling Maidana and Castillo, I call bull****. First off, Maidana doesn’t even resemble Castillo (and I’ve never seen a fighter from a hundred years ago who resembled Castillo). Second of all, you never even saw Greb fight so you’re just guessing.

    I say he fought somewhere in between Hatton and Berto. Or maybe Emmanuel Augustus or Gatti. Those guys actually fought kind of like throwback fighters.
     
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  4. quest00

    quest00 Member Full Member

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    Exactly......I wish others shared your sentiments instead of just going along with stories passed down. I'm not saying he wasn't a great fighter, but how can you compare if you've seen no footage of him. Many people just go along with the crowd. I respect your honesty.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ha!

    This is the post of the thread so far.

    So: You keep stating that nobody has seen Greb fight.

    Yet you call BS if someone says his style resembled anyone who Floyd struggled with, before then telling us that you THINK his style resembled the guys who Floyd easily beat.

    Brilliant!

    Ha!
     
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  6. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    You fail to understand nuance, you dope. I'm saying I can say he looked like whomever and it's just as valid if not more.
     
  7. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Reading your posts has become somewhat akin to watching Jimmy "The Birdman" Smith's pro debut - on auto-repeat.
     
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  8. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Member Full Member

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    Blackburn, Norfolk and Flowers were the biggest names, and he fought all of them at one point or another in his career. The other relevant fighters were white, aside from actual Heavyweights like Wills or Langford ( who was declining anyway when Greb hit his best years). Even if there was a black fighter he didn't fight, you either don't know him or he wasn't that good to begin with. In other words, you belittle Harry Greb for no reason other than trying to make him look bad.

    I'm not guessing anything, not having footage doesn't mean we can decide how a fighter fights just because it's convenient to our agenda. Greb didn't fight like anyone of his time anyway, why would you look at "throwback" fighters to get some kind of similarity ? Greb was a swarming, pressuring, relentless, lightning fast, agile, durable machine with a never ending gas tank. That's indisputable and multiple sources support this.

    The things that Maidana and Castillo did to perform so well against Floyd are the same, even though they obviously have differences in their styles. Both of them weren't afraid of his power, and thus were willing to punch with him rather than get gunshy due to Floyd's counter-punching. They both cut off the ring so Floyd wouldn't fight in his preffered range, and both of them were aggressive so that Floyd would have trouble finding his rhythm against them.

    That describes Greb to a T, but he was also bigger, faster, better defensively and with better stamina. There's no way Floyd has the advantage here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
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  9. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Greb is actually noted in history for NOT drawing the color line and giving Flowers a shot at the title.

    In addition to the guys you've already mentioned, I believe Greb also fought Allentown Joe Gans who, along with Flowers, had found his way into The Ring magazine's inaugural Annual Ratings in 1924.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
  10. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Member Full Member

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    Exactly, trying to say otherwise is just negligible nonsense, and genuinely disrespectful to the man's legacy and career. But he's got to do what it takes to make Greb look bad and prove that Floyd is some sort of a once in a lifetime Boxing messiah.
     
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  11. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Agreed.

    Naturally, without the aid of footage of Greb, it is difficult to imagine, in detail, how any head-to-head with him might go.

    But, we do have enough evidence, in the form of footage of Greb's opponents; a record of Greb's exploits, as well as consistent accounts of Greb's style, in the course of achieving them, so as to make an educated guess.

    For mine, having handed Tunney his only defeat, speaks volumes.
     
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  12. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    He fought Joe Gans in 1926, well after his prime. Just because what I'm saying is uncomfortable to you on a personal level, does not make it wrong.
     
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  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I understand perfectly.

    It’s patently obvious what you’re doing.

    Please tell me why you’ve referenced Canelo, when he and Greb fought nothing alike?

    Why would you have mentioned Canelo in one of your 5 points?
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That’s an insult to Jimmy.
     
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  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great post.

    But wait…

    Floyd easily beat Canelo, who was of a similar size to Greb.

    Ha!

    That’s what you’re dealing with here.