Harry Greb vs. Jack Dempsey - Repercussions?

According to Greb the sparring session was filmed but Dempsey had it destroyed because he looked bad in it.

Dempsey, very famously, was extremely hard on sparring partners even ones with little or no experience. He knocked out Paul Gallico when Gallico (a writer) wanted the experience of sparring with the champ. In training for Miske a young soldier from a nearby camp came and offered to help Dempsey train and Dempsey brutally knocked him out in about a minute. Dempsey demolished Battling Gahee in sparring for Carpentier, and routinely broke sparring partners jaws, ribs, etc. It was often said Dempsey didnt know how to pull his punches. If he struggled with Greb it was because of Greb not because Dempsey was taking it easy.

 

Harry Greb never said that in print. Show me the interview where he said since you are as knowledgeable as anyone who posts about Greb. In fact Greb always stated that if you could get Dempsey out of the first four rounds he would be easy to handle.

 

You are right and I am wrong ,I no **** all oK? Just give me a miss.Ive read several books that state Tunney won the 23 fight without a doubt. Not on the take jounalists ,many of whom didnt even have a byline with their name on it.

 

The reference to Dempsey and 4 rds actually came from Jack Johnson.

 

According to Dempsey he didnt ko Gallico ,as stated in his autobiography Jack said, Gallico got Dempsey's assurance that he wouldn't hit him in the stomach,Gallico threw out a weak jab ,Dempsey countered Gallico went down ,got up ,Dempsey moved in told him to "hold on kid till your head clears",Dempsey rabbit punched him and Kearns stopped it. As you got that wrong maybe you arent quite as infallible as you seem to see yourself?

 

Dave Shade a clever boxer also gave Dempsey trouble in sparring ,was he a match for Dempsey?

 

Klompton, easy pal, Big Dee may be irritating, but the statement attributed to Greb I've also read in several places over the years. Whether its an accurate quote, can't say, and most of us aren't making notes of where we see these things. Must say, sometimes it would be handy though.

 

Let me guess the several books youve read have been about Tunney no? Surprise surprise. So where do you think those books get theyre facts from? Because those newspapers which were supposedly on the take (actually its been alleged that Tunney's manager Billy Gibson, who was bought and paid for by gangsters, paid reporters not Greb's who was never associated with gangsters, but thats beside the point) The vast VAST majority of people felt Greb won the fight in Feb of 23. Period. Its a fact and if you check it you wont be arguing about something you obviously know nothing about. More than one paper called for an investigation into the decision. W. Muldoon head of the NYSAC said it was a bad decision, as did many many many others.
But hey, lets take the words of Tunney himself who stated in his biography "a man must fight" that.

"It is only fair to Harry to say that there was a great deal of disagreement as to the accuracy of the decision. The judges, newspapermen, and spectators were divided.... ...REALIZING THERE WAS SOME JUSTICE TO GREB'S CLAIM OF A BAD DECISION, I offered him a return engagement." Page 162

Which is bull****, Greb posted $5000 the day after the fight to bind Tunney to a rubber match and William Muldoon authorized it.

And by the way, Dempsey did KO Gallico, it was in the newspaper coverage from Dempsey's training camp.

 

from some guy named Doc Kearns and some guy named William Harrison Dempsey. Both in Dempsey's autobiography and Fire of Pure Flame mention this.

 

Not from a book on Tunney. So Dempsey's Auto biography is wrong and you are right ,that figures.Newspaper coverage again,well of course thats unimpeachable ,was it by Gallico? Billy Gibson was bought and paid for by gangsters ,thats a sweeping statement ,and of course you have definite proof of this.Well he wasn't bought and paid for by Al Capone ,because Capone dropped a bundle betting on Dempsey"I oughta known better than bet against a kid from New York".

 

You should read The Impossible Dream ,by Larry Gains he was a sparring partner for Dempsey ,he goes in detail about how hard Dempsey was on his sparring partners.Dempsey once has a 7 foot novice in camp,he broke his jaw in two places,Dempsey regularly beat up Farmer Lodge,Ray Newman, Marty Burke and Big Boy Peterson four of his partners.

 

Yeah I do have unimpeachable truth as a matter of fact. I have a contract on Tunney signed by Billy Gibson, Philadelphia gangster Max Boo Boo Hoff, and Tunney. Any other questions?

 

BIG DEE HERE= It came from an interview with Frank Graham, New York Sun
Sports Reporter in the 1920s as Frank Graham was the No.1 reporter for the Sun. Graham`s career lasted from 1915 to 1965. Graham asked Greb in an interview while at the old George Jaffe`s Acadamy Burlesque theater of Liberty avenue in New York city in 1925. Graham said to Greb that Grantland Rice thinks you are the greatest fighter, pound for pound he ever saw and would like to see you fight Dempsey. Greb asked back how many rounds?
Graham said back to Greb. He didn`t say! Greb said back to Graham. Tell
Mr. Rice, I`d like to fight Dempsey, too. For 6 rounds. If I didn`t blind him
by then, he would kill me in the 7th. HARRY GREB`S WIFE HAD BEEN A CHORUS GIRL AT THE THEATER WERE SHE MET HARRY GREB GOT MARRIED AND HAD THEIR DAUGHTER DOROTHY. GRAHAM HAD IT IN PRINT IN THE NEW YORK SUN NEWSPAPER IN 1925.

 

Which proves what exactly, that Gibson was crooked? Grazianos manager was friendly with gangsters as was Johnny Wilson the guy Greb won the title off were the fights crooked? Capone actually offered to fix the fight with Tunney for Dempsey,but Dempsey sent him a letter asking him to let the fight stand on the level "in the name of sportsmanship".Dempsey's Wife received 500$ worth of flowers with a note signed" In the name of sportsman ship" .But of course you know all this don't you? Like you know Dempsey asked Greb to train him for his comeback ,but they couldnt agree on financial terms.

 

Like I said, show me the article where Greb is quoted or give me a date so I can see it for myself and every one here can too. Fred Keats and Alfred Dayton were the NY Sun's top boxing reporters in 1920s, not Frank Graham. The Academy Burlesque was in Pittsburgh not New York, and interviews with the family conducted by myself show that it is very unlikely that Mildred, Harry's wife, was a chorus girl at the Academy or anywhere else... Come on BIG DEE any other fairy tales you wanna perpetuate. Or would you simply like me to quote article after article from 1918 to 1926 where Harry repeatedly asks for a shot at Dempsey making no stipulation as to the amount of rounds and in fact stating that after getting Dempsey over a four rounds he would be easy to handle. Greb wasnt afraid of Dempsey and truly believed he would beat him. Its funny you list a purported article from sometime in 1925 stating Greb wouldnt fight Dempsey more than a few rounds when in fact in late July of 1925 Greb stopped in the middle of a tour of western states where he was fighting, turned around and headed to a meeting with Floyd Fitzsimmons in Chicago to sign for a fight with Dempsey to be held in Michigan City on Labor Day. Fitzsimmons had decided to try for the bout after a poll of leading sportswriters suggested Greb as the best choice for Dempsey to face. After agreeing verbally to the fight thinking Greb would not sign Dempsey quickly called it off when word reached him that Greb was headed to sign the articles. So I find it more than a little strange that in the same year Greb supposedly wouldnt fight Dempsey more than four rounds he dropped everything and headed to Chicago to sign for a bout that would do just that. I mean lets face it, it was Dempsey dodging his toughest challengers in 1920s not Greb...

Mcvey: Yes, Wilson was crooked. He was owned by Frankie Marlowe who was a mob leader that was eventually gunned down and killed and Wilson was in fact questioned in his murder. The day of the first Greb-Wilson fight gangsters came to Greb's dressing room and offered Greb and his manager Red Mason money to throw the fight. Greb and Mason refused and it was this that Cuddy DeMarco who was with Greb that night blamed for never getting a title shot despite having beaten such men as Mike ballerino, Babe Herman, Jackie Bernstein, Jack Zivic, and drawing with Kid Kaplan before his career went into a slide. Its also been alleged by his family that there was at least one attempt on Greb's life during this time period. With that being said, yes Gibson was crooked, period end of story, Tunney himself called Gibson the most connected manager in boxing. Ever wonder why Tunney bought his own contract from one of the great cornermen of all time Doc Bagley only to sign with Billy Gibson and NEVER gave a good reason for this? He knew that without favorable press and favorable judging he was only going to get so far, especially after Greb kicked his ass the first time and the poor decision in the second Greb bout was directly attributed to Billy Gibson by several writers the day after the fight.

But you go on believing what Nat Fleisher, Dan Daniel, James Fair and a whole bunch of other writers who fictionalized their accounts more often than not. I mean, if it was written in ring magazine it has to be true right? They dont call it the bible of boxing for nothing right?