Harry Greb vs. Jack Johnson

How can you be sure of that ?

 

atsch

No chance. Johnson is the most overrated Heavyweight ATG of all time, Greb would bamboozle him. The constant clinching and sporadic choppy right hands would do little to faze a fighter who knew all the tricks Greb supposedly knew.

 

192 for Burns ,and Greb got absolutely outboxed and dominated by an 8 fight Tommy Gibbons in 1915 when Greb had 46 fights under his belt.

Johnson was over 200lbs for all of his title defences,.he never scaled less than 205 in any of them.
PRIME FOR PRIME Whatever Greb you pick and the best of Johnson ,which by his own admission was against Jeffries.For which he scaled 208lbs.

 

So hard to talk about Greb and stylistic match ups when we have no footage of him. Weve all heard his style described but its not the same as seeing the nuances of his boxing technique.

 

He didnt have an easier time with Tunney, as Tunney matured, and grew stronger ,plus in those fight Tunney was 30lbs lighter than Johnson.
Greb would be bouncing all around him , I agree,and some of the time he might be bouncing up and down from the canvas.

 

Pick your prime Greb ,put him against the Johnson of Reno ,and tell me ,hand on heart who wins? All the rest is irrelevant bull****.

 

The whole point of this thread is we are judging them on their best night GET IT?

 

The fact that Johnson was 53 had nothing to do with the result I suppose?atsch
P.S. Wright also stopped Sam Langford and Fred Fulton.
I don't think you are going to contribute much to this debate somehow.:bart

 

Since they both held wins over Langford I believe quite a few posters would give them a decent chance against Greb,they would, I think, be the two best heavyweights he encountered.

 

Actually, Hart is 26 years old in the picture of him in his diaper. He looks actually looks better than the soft looking fellow in the picture you posted.

The photo of Hart was taken in1902 when Hart scaled 170lbs ,he scaled 195lbs when he fought Burns for the title, in 1906 ,25lbs heavier, 190lbs when he met Johnson in 1905.

Nice try though.

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Who looks the bigger man here?



O'Brien was not even 170 pounds for the Johnson fight. Putting your fists under your biceps to inflate them is not original.[/quote]


No inflation here.Just a ripped fighter.

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Bottomline .
Is Greb a harder hitter than Johnson?
Is Greb a better boxer than Johnson?
Is Greb's chin better than Johnson's [we are talking at top heavy level]?

If the answer to these questions is no .How does Greb win?

On The best day each fighter ever had , both in top condition.

Who Wins?

 

No they were proven HWs as opposed to Greb who was a MW/LHW with a few over the weight LHW fights (cruser fights perhaps)

 

Correct.

Hart wasn't as skilled as Greb, but he had heart, and determination. Enough to deter Johnson for the entire second half of the fight. Greb also had great heart, and determination.

I read some of Griffin who defeated Johnson, and was not as great as say Choynski or Hart. Griffin said when he knocked out Johnson's teeth, he felt like Johnson wanted to quit in the final rounds.

O'Brien was a fast, but also seemed to lack courage on the filmed fight I have seen him in. His power was very poor. Yet his speed and skills was enough to make it debatable as to who won when he meet Johnson. I have read a reports that says O'Brien was the better. So stop the presses a super middle weight made the heavyweight champ in his prime look bad.

Choynski was fast and could punch. He just cut easy and could not take a good punch. He Ko'd Johnson in 3. Johnson had 24+ documented fights under his belt, and the match took place him his home town.

Greb to me is as fast as anyone here if you go by testimonials. In fact Jack Johnson himself who fought the above fighters said " Greb is the fastest fighters I have ever seen "! As I chronicled, Johnson had trouble vs. fast fighters ( Choynski, and O'Brien ). To suggest he had good defense in either fight is folly. He did not.

However, Greb brings more than just speed and skills to this match up. He had a chin of iron, the courage of a cornered lion, and the stamina to fight all night. A swarmer type with a hard to time defense, Greb could also fight dirty.

If you match Greb vs. a defensive boxer type who does not throw a lot of punches, the faster swarmer type has the advantage. The equalizer of course is power. Johnson hit harder harder, but he was never a viewed as an aggressive puncher who ended his biggest matches early. I doubt Johnson takes Greb out with one or two big shots.

Greb absolutely has a chance here. In fact on paper its better than Choynski, Hart, or O'Brien.

-M

 

well if you wanna play like that then fine..McVea and jeannette weren't exactly HW either, they were cruisers.

Mike/Tommy Gibbons, Gene Tunney>>> McVea and Jeanette