Harry Greb vs Jack Johnson.

What exact version of Johnson are we using? He did run hot and cold, often did only enough to win... or just enough not to win. Greb certainly had his way with Brennan, so the size argument is not really enough. However, Brennan was no Jack Johnson in skill set. This would an extremely interesting fight. Something tells me to favor Johnson, tho.

 

Greb isn't winning this at range, so at some point he must engage.Can he get in, score with a flurry and get out again without taking return fire? Burns couldn't do it and I think the prime 29years old Burns that Johnson fought would give Greb one hell of a fight. Johnson toyed with both Burns and Ketchel , Greb ,for whatever superhuman stamina and great speed he possessed was not a puncher, he never set himself long enough to get the power in his shots. Therefore Greb must outspeed and outpoint Johnson to win. I think there are very few fighters that can outpoint a prime Johnson over 12 rds, and ones 5' 8" weighing 165/ 170lbs do not , and have never existed.

 

I think he could. Of course he would get hit during the fight but Johnson can't stop him. Greb had a proven chin and proven skills against bigger men.

 

WHICH fighter did he face that hit as hard as Johnson? You keep saying Johnson couldn't hurt him... LESSER fighter hurt him. What is the basis for your comments?

 

Tunney probably hit with around the same power that Johnson did. You're acting as if Johnson is a prolific puncher when in fact he never stopped any renowned heavyweight that could take a punch other than Jeffries who had been retired for 6 years. He even took a middleweight Langford the distance! Johnson wasn't seen as a puncher then and he shouldn't be seen as one now. How many knockouts did he have during his title run? 2, Jeffries and Ketchel. Both of which are unimpressive knockouts.

Greb took Tunneys, Walker's, and several heavyweights best. Brennan hit harder than Johnson, and Greb took him the distance. Greb has a more than proven chin.

 

Johnson stopped McVey who was as durable as they come . I'm confident Johnson could ko Greb if he went out to do so, but he rarely did.

 

Mcvea was 19 years old and had 10 pro fights. 2 were against Johnson. The rematch usually favors the boxer.

 

McVey was 20 actually.Johnson ko'd Ketchel for 12 minutes ,he has enough power to ko Greb.

 

The more you post, the worse it gets. It's becoming very clear that you either don't know how to critically think, or you aren't very versed in the fighters we're discussing. Plenty of fighters hurt Greb, they are clearly referenced in some of the news reports. I never said Greb was easily stopped, he wasn't, but I'm question YOUR assertion that he wasn't hurt during some fights. Gibbons hurt him, Tunney hurt him, Flowers hurt him, Walker hurt him. Those are just to name a few. There are mentions of him getting stunned i.e. hurt. All those guys didn't hit nearly as hard as Johnson. Tunney didn't hit as hard as Johnson, and I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but it's wrong. As Mcvey mentions, Johnson laid out Stanley for 12 minutes when he got pissed. Johnson rarely went all out because he preferred to toy with his foes, but when he did, he could hit pretty hard.

You reference Jeffries, and cite he was coming out of retirement, as if that has something to do with Durability. That's a laughable and uneducated stance. Things like reflexes, mobility, coordination are vastly affected more with time off than Durability. Jeffries had one of the best chin in HW history, so Johnson stopping him (the first time ever) again shows his power. It's not like Jeffries was coming off a KO loss prior to him retiring, where we could point to his chin being dented some. He had cupcake affairs prior to him retiring. He took hellacious punches from one of the best punchers ever in Fitz, and never went down, let alone hurt as bad as he was with Johnson. Yet, according to you, Johnson didn't hit very hard ::rolls eyes::

It's becoming mind numbing to go over such basic things, and see you get so much wrong when you post. Shoot you didn't even know how Greb generally fought, and wanted him to act like SRL vs. Duran 2 in there. That is nothing like how he fought. He's going to be aggressive, and he'll get caught by Johnson at some point. If Johnson is motivated, he'd beating a bad beating on Greb, and totally nullify him inside. Not sure how you can't see this, and instead want greb to be some fighter he wasn't, and beat an ATG HW. Comical

 

Johnson ko'd Denver Ed Martin and so badly was Martin concussed Johnson was held by the authorities unless Martin died.

 

What date are you using as his birthdate? Greb was a better fighter and had a way better chin than Ketchel.

 

When did I say he was never hurt? Never.

Then how come Brennan couldn't hurt him? Brennan hit a lot harder than those guys.

We have no film on Greb. How do you know to which degree he was hurt? What we do know is he wasn't stopped for 200+ fights and he fought the best of the best. Many atgs are under his belt.

I never said you said he was easily stopped. Are you a paranoid schizophrenic? That's like the 3rd thing you have made up.

Ketchel was an unskilled brawler. Hit hard but that's it. If you think the Ketchel fight is a guage on how Greb would do then you are delusional.

It does you idiot. He was old and had not fought for 6 years. That's like saying the Louis fight is a major indicator of how Marciano would do against prime Louis. Incredibly stupid post. I honestly can't believe that you think that. Jeffries was a punching bag for 15 rds. He wasn't competitive at all.

Jeffries doesn't have to get knocked out prior to Johnson for me to know that a 6 year lay off and being 35 yrs old was detrimental to his performance and actually it shows how much of a non threat punching wise that Johnson was. Ali or any other non puncher would have knocked Jeffries out sooner.

I've said multiple times my opinion on how I think Greb fought judging from reports. You're the ignorant sob who thinks he was a face first brawler even though we have sparring footage that says otherwise.

You have been trying to manipulate my argument (strawman) this entire time. An indication that you are wrong.

 

I like Greb for this one (and this is coming from a huge Jack Johnson fan, so a tough thing to write) as it is a 12 round fight. Johnson was used to the longer distances and took his time with the beatings of his opponents. Yes, he was able to win quickly when needed but this seemed to be against lesser opposition generally.

Would a pressure fighter like Greb rack up the points on Jack? Quite possibly. Greb used to spar with Dempsey in the latter's training camps so it is not as if Johnson would be so much bigger than the best Greb had faced in the ring.

 

The is asterisked with McVey's first fight
"McVea had fought twice before coming to Oxnard, once in Salinas and once in Australia; he had a reported record of 6-0-2 prior to this fight."